Could new Officers choose Regiment?

[mickrose]

Hi,

In Dec. 1916, on my uncle's 'Application for admission to an Officer Cadet Unit', under the question 'which unit desirous of being appointed', he wrote Ox and Bucks Light Infantry.

[he was Bucks born and bred]

After completion of Officer training, he was attached to the 1/8th Lancashire Fusiliers.

Were new officers generally prevented from joining their home regiments and Battalions, because of possible familiarity with O.R's, or was it more a case of 'go where needed most' by that stage of the war? If refused the Ox and Bucks, would he have had a second choice?

i.e. Could it be that he did eventually choose the Lancashire Fusiliers?

Mick.

[nigelfe]

He'd have had to have been acceptable to the regiment of his preference and they'd have had to have had a vacancy for him. But I suspect that the 'needs of the service' were also a major factor during the war.

[truthergw]

By 1916 post Somme, the need for subalterns was such that any unit would have accepted one if offered. He would be directed to the one that was top of the waiting list. That is not to say that strings could not be pulled and the more prestigious the Regiment, the more strings would be pulled. A working class 2nd Lietenant would be very unlikely to find himself commissioned in the Household cavalry.

[mickrose]

Thanks nigelfe, and truthergw,

He was a grammar school boy, a boarder [£3.3s per term!] but I don't know of his

exams success.

Where would the Ox and Bucks, and the Lancs. Fus. stand in the 'prestige' table?

Mick.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The question is: 'which unit desirous of being appointed' there was no obligation for the army to fulfil their desires. The WWI armed services were not 'touchy feely' organisations, you went where you were sent. Also the wording is a carry over from peace time, wartime pressures would take precidence.

[truthergw]

Thanks nigelfe, and truthergw,

He was a grammar school boy, a boarder [£3.3s per term!] but I don't know of his

exams success.

Where would the Ox and Bucks, and the Lancs. Fus. stand in the 'prestige' table?

Mick.

I'm no expert in these specific regiments but they would be more likely as a billet for a middle class boy than most Cavalry Regiments. Snob values has been discussed and might show in a search. I know that in some regiments, the battalion was decided along these lines. The hoi poloi ending up in New Army, 6/7/8 Btn as temporary gentlemen with Old Harry's boy fresh from Public school in 1st or 2nd Btn with the regulars.

[n cherry]

Didn't the Light Infantry carry a bit more kudos than the Lancs Fusiliers???

Black buttons, special marching pace and carrying the rifles at the trail.......

But on the other hand and no idea of the answer to this....did all of this go out the window because of the war....after all how many 'formal' parades would a LI battalion undertake a year when they marched at their special pace????/

[mickrose]

Thanks lads.

I also felt that the Ox and Bucks carried more kudos 'n cherry'.

I suppose as a grammar school boy he would have been considered a snob. but I was surprised to discover that he was a boarder.[he only lived about 6 miles away]

His family were farmers but not landowners. I think he just wanted to be with a local Regiment.

I agree with 'per ardua...'. A question on the form possibly, which no-one took any notice of anymore . . . . apart from the applicant.

But part of my initial query was; Would'nt the Authorities be inclined to send a new officer to any Regiment BUT his local one? I just thought there might be a problem with lack of respect at the outset, from OR's that knew the officer personally. [ I'm really talking about periods where there was not a desperate shortage of officers I suppose, which probably means pre-war almost]

Mick.

[n cherry]

Thanks lads.

I also felt that the Ox and Bucks carried more kudos 'n cherry'.

I suppose as a grammar school boy he would have been considered a snob. but I was surprised to discover that he was a boarder.[he only lived about 6 miles away]

His family were farmers but not landowners. I think he just wanted to be with a local Regiment.

I agree with 'per ardua...'. A question on the form possibly, which no-one took any notice of anymore . . . . apart from the applicant.

But part of my initial query was; Would'nt the Authorities be inclined to send a new officer to any Regiment BUT his local one? I just thought there might be a problem with lack of respect at the outset, from OR's that knew the officer personally. [ I'm really talking about periods where there was not a desperate shortage of officers I suppose, which probably means pre-war almost]

Mick.

Mick,

There is some truth to the comment about knowing the men...it was preferred if a man was commissioned from the ranks to go to another battalion....also as it was after the 1st July the authorities realised that having a lot of men from the same location in the same unit did have the potential to cause massive losses in small and large communities....

NC

[woolly]

Didn't the Light Infantry carry a bit more kudos than the Lancs Fusiliers???

Black buttons, special marching pace and carrying the rifles at the trail.......

But on the other hand and no idea of the answer to this....did all of this go out the window because of the war....after all how many 'formal' parades would a LI battalion undertake a year when they marched at their special pace????/

Light Infantry regiments with black buttons? I know that this war is causing standards to drop but that would put them on a par with their social betters in the KRRC and RB! I suggest you double away to the anteroom with a bottle of whisky and the Mess Webley and do the right thing. Whatever next ... subsides into armchair and harrumphs loudly behind his Daily Telegraph.

Woolly

[per ardua per mare per terram]

But part of my initial query was; Would'nt the Authorities be inclined to send a new officer to any Regiment BUT his local one? I just thought there might be a problem with lack of respect at the outset, from OR's that knew the officer personally. [ I'm really talking about periods where there was not a desperate shortage of officers I suppose, which probably means pre-war almost]

The whole idea of the county regiments was that they were drawn from local men! A grammar school boy was likely to be from a higher social strata than many ORs and would gain the deference due his position. You have not mentioned whether he saw service in the ranks, when being promoted from within might have caused trouble. This was simple to get around by promoting him to a different battalion of the same regiment.

Officers were on the general list and so could be appointed to general positions. Fusiliers and Light Infantry both saw themselves as special! When a shell hit or a machine gun sprayed it didn't matter what snob value your regiment had.

[mickrose]

Per ardua per mare per terram,

No he did'nt see service in the ranks.

He started basic training, and after a couple of weeks he or someone decided he should

apply for officer training. He probably was considered different by some, as a grammar school boy, but in reality he was just an incredibly shy, farmers son, like his younger brothers that I knew. Very ordinary folk.

It was because the county regiments were drawn from the county, that I asked the question really. I just thought that the comradeship might stop short of the officers.

Would'nt a new young officer be better off NOT starting his life as an officer in charge of individuals that he may know personally.

But perhaps I'm judgeing things from todays perspective, and he would, as you say have got due deference, even from those who knew him..

Mick.

[truthergw]

He would not be mixing with people he knew except from a distance. Grammar school boarder already set him apart from the men. There would be plenty of hairy old NCOs about to make sure that anyone silly enough to play on acquaintance woild be sharply put in their place. It would be for him to assert himself. It was something he had to learn. Being a young subaltern with a half company of soldiers, some old enough to be his father, calling him sir and saluting and standing to attention when he entered a room. That is partly what that is for. To emphasise that this person is an officer and not the lad you used to see on his dad's farm.

[mickrose]

truthergw,

Yeah yer right!

Nicely put, and that makes sense enough for me.