Grovetown Posted 24 July , 2008 Share Posted 24 July , 2008 I hope you snapped them all up GT! May have snaffled one or two at the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montbrehain Posted 24 July , 2008 Share Posted 24 July , 2008 Did any of you see or end up with some bottles that hit the market years ago that were made by the National electroplating Company in NZ. The bottle was blue and the cover was what I would describe as mustard There was a piece of card at the bottom of the bottle with the manufactures name on it . I removed mine and placed it in an album. I wish I had bought more of these bottles at the time . I was told or believe that thay were found in Athens ??? "MO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 24 July , 2008 Share Posted 24 July , 2008 "I have never seen an other ranks' cover coloured khaki, and am a bit surprised at Taff's post to that effect. I'll stick my neck out and say 03/08 bottles with "khaki" covers were rarely, or never, issued during the war" Hi Wainfleet, The early part of the thread was asking whether Mike Chappell's illustrations which show a very blue felt cover was correct. My point was that they were not blue but khaki which, with hindsight, was not very clear. I am not talking about being covered with khaki uniform cloth (although I do have a moth-eaten one which is) but felt covers in differing shades of khaki - not blue. The impressive collection from Tocemma illustrates the point; all are in differing shades of khaki - or do you all think there is only one shade of khaki? Does anyone have the original ACI for the MkV bottle? It would be interesting to see what the War Office asked manufacturers for. The original ones I have include all the colours shown above but I still say they they are meant to be shades of khaki (even the ones which look pink!) - not the blue shown in the Osprey illustrations. Cheers, Taff Hi Taff So we meant the same thing all along! Really, I should have started off by asking what you meant by "khaki", but all's well that ends well. Regards, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief_Chum Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 "There was no suggestion of (Mike Chappell bashing) in your post Taff, but people often blame him for the Blue-Green-Red-waterbottle-boot-hat-thing. It was more of a general observation from me really" ...and a fair one TM. Consensus reached I think! "Did any of you see or end up with some bottles that hit the market years ago that were made by the National electroplating Company in NZ?" Hi Mo, I've got a couple. I always assumed they were WW2 bottles but would be interested to know for sure. "So we meant the same thing all along! Really, I should have started off by asking what you meant by "khaki", but all's well that ends well." Hi W, I like a happy ending! Still, my fault for not being specific. Cheers, Taff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Wow, I need to get my colour vision tested...one man's grey is another man's 'khaki' (most of those illustrated so far look khaki to me...) I've got one of those NZ bottles too - I thought WW2, so I'm hoping for an answer to Taff's query. Cheers Peter PS: (I vote for Mike Chappell as a National Treasure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Peter, I'm pretty certain that the NZ bottles that turned up in quantity some years ago were of WW2 vintage. Carl Woods who sometimes posts on this forum would most likely be the person to confirm this. I confined myself to British equipment only. There are way too many variations amongst Commonwealth kit, although most are based on the British patterns, and it is outside my particular interest. Re the colour issue...... the digital camera and the small upload size on the forum doesn't help with colour rendition. I will have to upload them to photobucket or some other hosting site as hi res files and maybe the colour will be clearer. My main point is that it is confusing to use a general term like 'khaki' when someone has asked for guidance on specific colour. It covers too broad a spectrum of colours to be reliable as we are all aware. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 So, to clarify, would the orangey brown shade of covered water bottle be suitable for 1914? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Rob, In my opinion it is one of the early colours. As Wainfleet has pointed out it is not uncommon to find this colour on Boer War period bottles. The bottle I illustrated came with a virtually mint set of '08. All the parts are dated 1914. It seems to be an unissued set but it has been together for a long time. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thorne Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 tocemma, Question about one of the bottles you posted (SPLENDID collection, by the way). As I'm sure you know, the 1912 carrier shown with the bottle carried by the Gordon Highlander officer is a variant not listed in the British List of Changes - it has the body of the second issue carrier, but the double strap of the first issue. As far as I've been able to tell, the only official use of this type of carrier was by the Australians, in their pre-war issue of Pattern 1908 between 1911 and 1913. This variation of water bottle carrier is illustrated in the 1911 Melbourne printing of the Pattern 1908 Instruction & Fitting Manual. However, I suspect that this same WBC was available from Mills or its agents for PP and/or TA use as well, as part of the alternative (i.e., cheaper) Pattern 1908 set with the 90-round cartridge carriers and strap greatcoat carrier. In the case of your officer's WBC, I'm wondering if there are any marks on the carrier (other than the date, I mean)? He could certainly have acquired an Australian bottle carrier at some point in the field, in which case it should probably be MECo and Aussie unit marked. On the other hand, a private purchase or TA bottle might have other marks, such as "Hazel & Co." Thanks, John Thorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantsmil Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 1st image : This blue coloured cover is sewn over the top of a khaki wool cover. 2nd image : Showing a variety of khaki colours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montbrehain Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Thanks for that Grant (is your No 5 bottle one of the NZ ones I mentioned earlier ? ) , and thanks all. A good thread on a subject I had,nt really gave a great deal of thought too. Very interesting , "MO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Peter, I'm pretty certain that the NZ bottles that turned up in quantity some years ago were of WW2 vintage. Carl Woods who sometimes posts on this forum would most likely be the person to confirm this. I confined myself to British equipment only. There are way too many variations amongst Commonwealth kit, although most are based on the British patterns, and it is outside my particular interest. Re the colour issue...... the digital camera and the small upload size on the forum doesn't help with colour rendition. I will have to upload them to photobucket or some other hosting site as hi res files and maybe the colour will be clearer. My main point is that it is confusing to use a general term like 'khaki' when someone has asked for guidance on specific colour. It covers too broad a spectrum of colours to be reliable as we are all aware. Regards Tocemma Thanks indeed, I feel that the NZ version has a ww2 feel (it is the one illustrated by Grant). Looking forward to seeing the images - I guess I should list my own, too! Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 (edited) John Thorne said: tocemma, Question about one of the bottles you posted (SPLENDID collection, by the way). Edited 16 December , 2023 by tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantsmil Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Peter, Mo, I agree. I would also suggest that the water bottle shown as no.5 is the WW2 Kiwi one, it appears to fit the pattern and colour. In post #35 I should have listed what I believe the other to be........ no.1. Unknown, possibly Portuguese no.2. Australian WW1 no.3. British WW1 no.4. Canadian WW1 no.5. New Zealand WW2 no.6. used by Australian WW1 (ex 3rd L.H) no.7. Commonwealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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