Mutiny

[MelPack]

An interesting read on mutinies can be found here:

http://libcom.org/library/mutinies-dave-lamb-solidarity

Regards

Mel

[per ardua per mare per terram]

There was also the mutiny of the German High Seas Fleet in November 1918.

[Ivor Lee]

Two interesting sources

Lawrence James - "Mutiny In the British and Comonwealth Forces 1797 - 1956"

Andrew Rothstein - "The Soldiers Strikes of 1919"

Ivor

[Cliff. Hobson]

Quote "Dover 5th Jan 1919 - 4,000 troops in sympathy with Folkestone."

Account given by a Soldier H Drabble 4th Batt., South Staffs recorded by his Daughter.:-

" I applied for leave as I hadn't had any. I got home about 20th December 1918, I had fortnight

at home and then went to Dover (4th Jan.) we were just going down the gangway onto the ship

when some Australians and Canadians said, 'where are going, you silly Tommies? You don't

want to go back the war is over. They kept talking like that until there were a thousand men

who wouldn't go back. We found out that we should have gone to Folkstone where they were

doing the same trick, so they had sent us to Dover and the empty ships came round from

Folkestone to pick us up there. But news got to Dover what was happening. We walked round the

town until eventually we went into a big cinema and the Red Caps came down to talk to us and

they finished up by saying if you have job to go back to you needn't go back."

[Marienkäfer]

Whilst reading up on Taranto I came upon ref's to the 1918 BWIR mutiny. This got me wondering how many other mutinies had taken place during the war years. I have heard of the Etaples and Singapore mutinies as well as some troubles with certain Indian Bn's in Mesopotamia. Does anyone one have any other examples or views on how they were managed / dealt with ?

Regards

Dave

The book Blindfold and Alone has a chapter devoted to mutinies. I recall interesting events involving stubborn Australians (who couldn't be shot).

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Good one! The Russian conflict was certainly a threat; rumours spread like wildfire that units were to be sent there. Certainly played a part in some occurances.

There was a mutiny by the 6th bn Royal Marines while actually in Russia.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I have two aussie soldiers involved in mutinies while on the Island of Malta during 1915.

These are where soldiers (British, NZ and aussies) evacuated sick or wounded from Gallipoli to Malta found conditions to be very poor.

The resault of these small mutinies were sentenced to lenghtly peroids of Jail time (2 to 3 years either PS or HL) for all. Only most of the men had an early return to unit, at lest the aussies I looked at they served about four months in jail.

S.B

[Wayne Saillard]

With regards to the claim of there being 'very poor' conditions on Malta, I would be very interested in discovering what it is based on. The Official Histories, and letters by the troops themselves to the local press, do not give any such indication.

On an island that is (at it greatest distances) 17 miles by 9, thanks to the foresight of the Governor, Lord Methuen, a total of 27 hospitals and convalescent camps were prepared - together with a number of tea rooms and recreation tents/buildings. It should also be mentioned that wounded troops were greeted at the quayside by local volunteers who gave them 'comfort packages' with chocolate, cigarettes, etc.

While there are records in the local press of occasional, minor, street fights between troops of various nationalities (including Maltese), they do not appear to be on any different scale to other places. It is important to take them in context and not blow them out of proportion.

What may have been signs of unrest by a handful of men could easily have been blown up into something bigger (and less accurate) by persons who felt their authority being undermined. There are plenty of instances where people who had gone AWOL were actually charged with dissertion at the court martial - just to give one example.

[Guest]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and this sort of research, so all help gratefully received. I am interested in the Southampton mutinies of 1919. How would I go about finding out what regiments were involved, both in terms of the mutineers and those drafted in to stop them by Trenchard? A general literature research has revealed only basic details and I would like to track down what happened to some of the mutineers if possible.

 

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Sherry and welcome to the Forum!

The link to Dave Lamb's book (actually a booklet) in the first post on this page will probably give you the info you need. It is some time since I read the book but I think that much of the info in Geraint's first post one page one came from it.

There is also a book "The Forgotten Army" By D Gill and G Dallas, which may also help you.

Good hunting!

Ron

[Moonraker]

Welcome, Sherry

You probably already know this, but in the second major incident, in August 1919,  between 200 and 500 soldiers of the 2/7th Warwicks and the 2/5th Gloucesters mutinied. Three companies of the Royal Sussex Regiment arrived from Portsmouth Garrison and, with fixed bayonets and Lewis guns, surrounded the park where the insubordinate men had spent the night.

(I wonder how some of the Sussex soldiers felt about their this; sympathies must have been mixed.)

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

Welcome, Sherry

You probably already know this, but in the second major incident, in August 1919,  between 200 and 500 soldiers of the 2/7th Warwicks and the 2/5th Gloucesters mutinied. Three companies of the Royal Sussex Regiment arrived from Portsmouth Garrison and, with fixed bayonets and Lewis guns, surrounded the park where the insubordinate men had spent the night.

(I wonder how some of the Sussex soldiers felt about their this; sympathies must have been mixed.)

Were the Sussex soldiers TF too?

[ilkley remembers]

The mutiny is detailed in Simon Webb’s 1919 Britain’s Year of Revolution, Trenchard was apparently brought out of retirement to deal with the incident and was rather roughly handled by the mutineers. Having seethed for some hours about his treatment he instructed that the men from the Sussex Regiment turn their Lewis Guns on the miscreants and personally picked out those whom the thought were the main offenders. According to contemporary news reports  the ring leaders were to be held by the army for an indefinite period…presumably not in first class accommodation.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said:

The mutiny is detailed in Simon Webb’s 1919 Britain’s Year of Revolution, Trenchard was apparently brought out of retirement to deal with the incident and was rather roughly handled by the mutineers. Having seethed for some hours about his treatment he instructed that the men from the Sussex Regiment turn their Lewis Guns on the miscreants and personally picked out those whom the thought were the main offenders. According to contemporary news reports  the ring leaders were to be held by the army for an indefinite period…presumably not in first class accommodation.

Yes I read elsewhere on the forum fairly recently some detail of how Trenchard behaved.  I’m interested to know if the Sussex soldiers fronting up to the disgruntled Territorials were Regulars.

[Moonraker]

A couple of links here:

http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7373.0;wap2

https://libcom.org/history/articles/southampton-mutiny-1919

Easily found from Googling, and I assume that Sherry is aware of them.

Edited 17 August , 2021 by Moonraker

[ilkley remembers]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

 I’m interested to know if the Sussex soldiers fronting up to the disgruntled Territorials were Regulars.

No battalion is given just that the three companies arrived fron Portsmouth

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, ilkley remembers said:

No battalion is given just that the three companies arrived fron Portsmouth

I see, thank you for taking the trouble to look and letting me know, it’s appreciated.

[Robin Garrett]

On 12/07/2008 at 11:52, Ron Clifton said:

The mutineers at Singapore,

1st 4th KSLI provided the firing parties, commanded by a distant relation of mine. He was extremely glad when the task was over.

[ilkley remembers]

I recently purchased this postcard from the worlds favourite internet auction site. Not Southampton, unfortunately, but Blandford where in January 1919 RAF personnel chose to down tools in a dispute about demobilization. Incidents of discontent were not uncommon in the immediate post war period when civilians in uniform resorted to what I suppose were pre-war means of settling disputes.

In this case the matter was resolved after the Mayor of Blandford offered to take the matter to the War Office and a ‘whiff of grapeshot was not required’.

 

[MikeMeech]

4 hours ago, Sherry B said:

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and this sort of research, so all help gratefully received. I am interested in the Southampton mutinies of 1919. How would I go about finding out what regiments were involved, both in terms of the mutineers and those drafted in to stop them by Trenchard? A general literature research has revealed only basic details and I would like to track down what happened to some of the mutineers if possible.

 

Hi

I take it you have looked at Andrew Boyle's 'Trenchard, Man of Vision', pages 316-325, for Trenchard's 'version' of it?

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, ilkley remembers said:

I recently purchased this postcard from the worlds favourite internet auction site. Not Southampton, unfortunately, but Blandford where in January 1919 RAF personnel chose to down tools in a dispute about demobilization. Incidents of discontent were not uncommon in the immediate post war period when civilians in uniform resorted to what I suppose were pre-war means of settling disputes.

In this case the matter was resolved after the Mayor of Blandford offered to take the matter to the War Office and a ‘whiff of grapeshot was not required’.

 

They certainly look like civilians in uniform.  It really epitomises, visually, what happens when you put a nation in uniform.  It looks like a warrant officer’s nightmare!

 

Edited 17 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Guest]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions - they should keep me busy for a while. If I find anything really interesting I will post here. I was reading the Trenchard book and that was what got me curious in the first place, as I was unaware of the Southampton strikes and so am hoping to follow them up, but a newspaper search in the BNA revealed surprisingly little, hence the plea for help.  This forum is amazing with all the information on it and the support you provide. Hopefully once I get further into my research I can return the favour.