85th TRB?

[andy66]

Hi everyone,

My Great Uncle was in the 85th T.R.B. before moving to the Yorshire Regiment.

Can anyone please tell me what the 85th T.R.B. is/was?

Thanks in advance

Andy

[Stebie9173]

Training Reserve Battalion.

At the start of the war most Regiments had two Reserve Regiments - the 3rd Battalion (which had been a Reserve before the war) and a newly created Reserve battalion (often converted from a Kitchener Battalion). These later battalions were converted into Training Reserve Battalions on 1-9-1916. Men would trainin with these battalions and then transfer to a Regiment to go overseas.

http://www.1914-1918.net/training_reserve.htm

Steve.

[Graham Stewart]

The 85th Training Reserve Bn, had prior to the 1st September 1916, been the 30th(Reserve)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(Tyneside Irish) and those men who were still serving in this unit were transferred across in September 1916. Those who served in the Training Reserve were given unique regimental numbers, which denoted which regimental district they came from and in the case of 85th T.R.B. their numbers began TR/5/*****.

Do you have his T.R. regimental number? If not then it's more than likely his transfer to the Yorkshire Regt took place prior to embarkation, as the Medal Index Cards only show units that you served overseas with. However it should be on any surviving service records of his that you may have come across.

Sadly I can't fill in any further details as I'm thousands of miles from home and have no access to my notes.

[andy66]

Thank you

[andy66]

Graham, Sorry for the delay in reply I have been a bit busy on another subject recently but want to get back to this one if I may.

The details of the man I am interested in is: Pte Augustine Bergan, his 85th TRB number was: 65023 and his 2Bn Yorkshire Regt number: 33733. He was KIA, or at least I pressume KIA as his MIC just says 'Dead' 24.10.1917.

Would the TRB Bn's have their own cap badge? I have a copy of a photo that I am told is of Augustine in uniform, however he is wearing a cap badge of the Duke of Wellington's. I am quite sure the picture is of him but I can't put a date to it.

Anyone any idea's?

[jay dubaya]

Hi Andy,

Augustine was born in the 2nd quarter 1898 so was only just over 19yrs when he was KiA (SDGW). Could the photo be prior to him being transferred to the TRB from the Dukes? Thus giving him time to reach the required age to serve overseas. Looks like he's wearing the standard 1902 tunic and not the wartime ecconomy version, a prewar terrier pehaps, just a thought.........

Jon

[andy66]

Thanks Jon, any thoughts are very welcome. I'm not sure if he was a pre-war terrier due to his age pre 1914 (15-16 years old). He does look very young in the photo, and very much like my own son. I am wondering if he is wearing his brother's or my g/grandfathers uniform as they were all Duke's and some served prior to 1914. I have tried a search for his records through Ancestry but had no luck and his MIC does not have a date landed in France on it, I seem to recall somewhere on another thread that the date stopped being put on at some point.

Cheers

Andy

Here is his MIC:

[jay dubaya]

From what I believe Andy the 'date of entry' stopped appearing after the 31st December 1915. Interesting that the TRB appears on the MIC, were they overseas?

Jon

[andy66]

Yes I think the same, something to do with no longer issuing the 14-15 Stars. Not sure about the TRB being oversea's, I am hoping Graham from post 3 picks up on it again or someone else knowledgable in the area may be be able to assist.

[kevin]

Andy

I have a TR5 chap that was killed in action on the 21/03/1916, a Pte George Mullins TR5/34017 10th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment, Formerly T/2/13301 Royal Army Service Corps, the answer given to me by Graham Stewert was that he had died prior to been renumbered for the front line [ as if he was rushed to the Front from the Training Reserve, without going through one of the Line Regiments ], this may well be the case for your man, thus giving the reason for the TR5 number appearing on the MIC. [ Just a thought ].

Regards Kevin

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Andy,

Just seen this post and the added material. Going on what you've gathered together and what the MIC says, he was drafted overseas while serving with the 85th TRB, and his original number would have been TR/5/65023. The TRB number appearing on the MIC shows that was the unit he was serving in when he disembarked in France.

From the port of disembarkation he would have gone to a Base Depot and it's from there that he's been transferred again to the Yorkshire Regt and renumbered again in their numbering sequence 33733.

The photo is definately that of the Duke of Wellingtons Regt and I suspect it is one of their Reserve Battalions that he has originally been enlisted into and then transferred, for what ever reason, to the TRB.

Now and this is only a scenario, of the Dukes Reserve Battalions that remained in the UK, one of them, the 11th(Res)Bn was broken up and absorbed by other battalions of the 3rd(Reserve)Brigade,Training Reserve, which was primarily a Western Command unit. However he may have been transferred durng the break-up of this Dukes Battalion to the 85th TRB, which was a Northern Command unit. However I must say again this is only a possible scenario.

Alas though the only way to get to the actual fact's, especially regarding service at home, is to hope that some of his records survived the Blitz, but I bet this is something you've already followed up with a negative result.

[Stebie9173]

In most cases men were transferred to the Reserve battalion of their infantry Regiment (the 3rd Battalion in the case of the Yorkshires) prior to going overseas, but sometimes this didn't happen, or else there could have been a slip up on the Medal Card - they are not all infallible.

Steve.

[Graham Stewart]

Stebie,

I see what you're saying, regarding transfer from a TRB unit to a 3rd(Res)Bn and then overseas, but not necessarily as the TRBn's were training and draft finding units in their own right. They had taken on this role on the demise of the old Reserve Bn's, many of whom were transferred to the Training Reserve, which was a 'new' Corps on the establishment.

The ACI for the formation and role of the Training Reserve makes very good reading if you ever get the chance to view it.

[andy66]

I am wondering if there may have been a group of men all transfered from the TRB at the same time to the Yorkshire Regiment or if Augustine was a one off. I saw from SDGW he was enlisted in Bradford, was that a recruiting area for the Yorkshire Regt or the 85th TRB? Graham your scenario would make sense and fit with him being badged Duke of Wellington's in the photo. I tried a search through Ancestry for the service records but I did not get any hits. I am working on a familly member to volunteer himself to do some leg work at the NA. Fingers crossed that may furbish some positive results.