Chas Davis - Vimy Ridge

[pandect]

One of the few things I inherited from my father was a tiny (2 x 1.5 inches) book of "Songs of the Yukon" by Robert Service.

On the fly-leaf my father has written, in indelible pencil:

- Chas Davis - killed - Vimy Ridge - 1916 - July - R I P -

As I now live in France most research has to be done online; scouring CWGC records I have not yet been able to find a record that I can say definitely refers to this Chas Davis. Of course I cannot be certain which unit Chas was with.

In July 1916 my father was a few days past his seventeenth birthday and was with The Poplar and Stepney Rifles (17th London Regt). The war diary and Ron Wilcox's admirable book "The Poplars" show that they had been in the Souchez area for some time and that this was a relatively quiet period ; shortly after they moved South and later saw combat at High Wood.

Visiting the Souchez cemetery last year was inconclusive - it was an unexpected visit and I didn't have all my records with me... We hope to be in the area again around next September and I shall be better prepared this time!

Is there, by any chance, a forum member who has any connection with/is related to/knows of this Davis family? I am assuming that my father's spelling is correct but have checked homophone names just in case.

Apologies for perhaps woolly Army terminology but I broke three generations of tradition and joined the RAF for my National Service.

David

[sotonmate]

David

Take a look at this item from CWGC,the only DAVIS C commemorated at VIMY RIDGE and died in 1916. It seems he was a UK-born but served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force. It would be possible for you to trace this man's service record on line from the Canadian Archives,no fuss,immediate, AND for FREE !

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=156701!

Sotonmate

Edit: This ref doesn't link to the page I found ! Go to CWGC and search on Davis C 1916 Army Canada.There are two soldiers,one I think might be your subject.

[pandect]

David

Take a look at this item from CWGC,the only DAVIS C commemorated at VIMY RIDGE and died in 1916. It seems he was a UK-born but served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force. It would be possible for you to trace this man's service record on line from the Canadian Archives,no fuss,immediate, AND for FREE !

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=156701!

Sotonmate

Edit: This ref doesn't link to the page I found ! Go to CWGC and search on Davis C 1916 Army Canada.There are two soldiers,one I think might be your subject.

Thanks for a swift reply.

When I started down this trail my first thought was that there was a Canadian connection - Songs of the Yukon by a Canadian Poet and the book was printed in Toronto and the death being at Vimy Ridge. I must check my papers but I'm pretty sure that I found a C Davis on the Vimy Memorial but that showed DoD as August.

Had another look at CWGC - One Canadian was Cecil with DoD 2 june...

the other, Charles Davis record shows DoDeath as November 1916 - in your experience could the record be 4 months out?

I have always assumed that my father must have been pretty close to Chas to have been given the book and kept it as a souvenir/memorial. How likely is it that my father would have been able to become that friendly with a Canadian more than twice his age and in a different unit?

Don't you think it more likely that he would have become friendly with someone nearer his own age and perhaps with a London connection?

BTW I checked the Canadian records some time ago without success but perhaps I should have another try.

Hope the above doesn't sound ungrateful, I'm trying to get a clearer picture in my mind.

David

[nigelcave]

If it is July 1916 your man would not have been a Canadian; however, the 47th Div was in the Vimy area in July 1916; moving to the Somme on 1st August. Therefore it seems fairly likely that he was a friend in the same battalion.

[pandect]

Does this scenario sound reasonable?

Chas and my father were friends - Chas is wounded and gives my father the book - Chas subsequently dies - body gets "lost" - he becomes one of those with no known grave and date of death gets uncertain.

I've a relative who "died of wounds" and who has no known grave and another's name is mis-spelled on the Menin Gate. It was all such a massive undertaking that I'm continually surprised how much we can rely on the accuracy and quality of the records. Just my luck that my father's records are among the "burnt records".

Am I starting to sound paranoid? Sorry.

I hope the Tower Hamlets Local Papers may have published lists of locals KIA and that I may find something when I go over to UK later in the year - seems my best chance of getting more information on Chas Davis.

Regards

David

[nhclark]

David,

Fascinating stuff!

I agree that it's a reasonable assumption that your father and Charles Davis did meet during the war, but whether the book belonged to Charles is another question. I would have thought that if the two were or had become friends, or if the book were Charles', the book would have been signed or inscribed by Charles, so my first guess is that your father bought the book later on to remind him of the man who had clearly left an impression on him. If indeed Charles was Charles Herbert Davis, the Canadian who is commemorated on the Vimy Memorial, then it is easy to envisage the young Englishman being impressed by the Cornish-Canadian more than twice his age.

This brings me to the book. I can find just one reference to "Songs of the Yukon and Other Poems", which I take it is the title, and not a copy to be had anywhere! Importantly, is there a publisher/edition/date of publication or printing, or any other information about the copy you have that might lead us to a date of publication?

Noel

[pandect]

David,

Fascinating stuff!

I agree that it's a reasonable assumption that your father and Charles Davis did meet during the war, but whether the book belonged to Charles is another question. I would have thought that if the two were or had become friends, or if the book were Charles', the book would have been signed or inscribed by Charles, so my first guess is that your father bought the book later on to remind him of the man who had clearly left an impression on him. If indeed Charles was Charles Herbert Davis, the Canadian who is commemorated on the Vimy Memorial, then it is easy to envisage the young Englishman being impressed by the Cornish-Canadian more than twice his age.

This brings me to the book. I can find just one reference to "Songs of the Yukon and Other Poems", which I take it is the title, and not a copy to be had anywhere! Importantly, is there a publisher/edition/date of publication or printing, or any other information about the copy you have that might lead us to a date of publication?

Noel

Hi Noel

I should have said that there are several Charles Davis' inscribed on the Thiepval Memorial with deaths in /around July 1916

Book:

Title - Songs of the Yukon by Robert W Service

Published - Toronto - William Briggs - 1913

Printed - in Edinburgh (!)

Copyright in Canada

Contents - "The Law of the Yukon" and "The Cremation of Dan McGee"

Does seem to point at a Canadian origin doesn't it?

The fact that the dedication is in pencil makes me think it was done at the time and not later.

It is so small (53x38mms; difficult to measure but around 5 point type) and the cover is leather makes me wonder if it was a special production for travellers... It was so small I doubt if it was ever out of the owners pocket and wouldn't have needed his name and probably Chas was beyond writing if/when he handed it over.

Dad died 50 years ago so I'm working my memory pretty hard - yes, his health was b******d by his time in the trenches - he'd have stayed in the army if his health had been up to it. Not that he was very fond of the army hierarchy he took a pretty dim view of being transferred from France to Dublin and swapping being shot at by Germans for being shot at by Irishmen. He kept the book and the only other memento in a little box which I still have.

The other item is a crucifix which he took from a gravestone. As at least one German bullet hit the stone while he was sheltering behind it he kept it as a talisman. He told me that he thought it ironic that a dead German had effectively saved his life - I must admit I think it was probably a Belgian or French grave but it's a good story whatever. The way he kept it makes me think that it came direct from Chas and was not bought later.

Frustrating isn't it?

David

[nhclark]

I agree that this is frustrating. I was hoping that the book might give us a clue, but it doesn't really. Google did reveal just one reference to this edition of the book, describing it as an "antique miniature."

I agree that prima facie there is a Canadian connection.

However, perhaps we should take a step back and start on the premise that your father's inscription was an accurate one, and that the Chas Davis of his dedication was indeed killed in July 1916 on Vimy Ridge. That being the case I would list out all the Chas Davis and Chas Davies who were killed in July 1916, and work through them one by one to see whether they can be prioritised. For example, was any one of them in the same brigade as your father, the same division, etc. etc?

Also, the connection between your father and Chas might not be though the Western Front at all, but one of civilian life. The connection might be neighbourhood, school, employment, etc. etc. Your father may have inscribed the book in memory of an old friend, rather than a fellow soldier, and he may have simply carried the book because he liked the poetry.

This might be a long job, but you might be able to narrow down the possibilities.

Noel

[pandect]

Hi Noel

If the book was from an English publisher I'd be more inclined to the idea that it was Dad's but I don't think it would have been his sort of reading...

I have again started pulling out all possible Davis?Davies casulaties - the likely candidates at present are one who was in the RGA and another in the Machine Gun Corps.

The one in the RGA's parents lived very close to the drill hall of the Poplars, Dad's unit but his grave is in Vlamertinghe rather a long way from Vimy - died 3 july 1916

The one in the MGC is memorialised on the Thiepval Monument but his parent's lived in Co. Down. he died 16 july

However, I wonder if the most likely candidate is Charles Davies of the Royal Fusiliers who is recorded as dying on 28 June and is buried at CANADIAN CEMETERY No.2, NEUVILLE-ST. VAAST which is only a couple of kms from Vimy. I must definitely call there when we go north later in the year to see if there is any further information about next of kin...

Thanks for your thoughts

David

[laughton]

Here are the CWGC records of as mentioned:

Canadians by the name C. Davis KIA 1916

These are the only 2 Canadians. It would have to be the one in June #106183 if any, if it was a Canadian?

Here are his attestation papers if interested:

Cecil's Attestation Papers

This fellow was born in Perth, Ontario.

David

Take a look at this item from CWGC,the only DAVIS C commemorated at VIMY RIDGE and died in 1916. It seems he was a UK-born but served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force. It would be possible for you to trace this man's service record on line from the Canadian Archives,no fuss,immediate, AND for FREE !

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=156701!

Sotonmate

Edit: This ref doesn't link to the page I found ! Go to CWGC and search on Davis C 1916 Army Canada.There are two soldiers,one I think might be your subject.

[Norrette]

Okay, I think I have got a tenous connection between the Royal Fusiliers and Vimy in 1916.

According to Nigel's book on Vimy Ridge, the 2/13th London Regiment (Princess Louise's Kensington Battalion) arrived at Vimy on June 27th 1916. According to the Long Long trail the London Regiment was a mismash of several units - many from the RF, http://www.1914-1918.net/london.htm. The Poplar and Stepney's are listed there too.

2/13th (County of London) Battalion TF (Kensington)

Formed in London in August 1914. By November 1914, in 2/4th (179th) London Brigade, 2/2nd London (60th) Division.

October 1914 : name changed to 2/13th (County of London) Princess Louise's Kensington Battalion.

Canadian Cemetery No 2

Norrette