Fen Tiger Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 Hi everyone, Well this is my first post so here goes.....does anyone have any idea as to where I could find some detailed information on the 1/1 Cambridgeshires (39th Div 118 Brigade) and if they were involved in the 3 rd battle of Ypres.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 Hi and welcome to the forum. The best overall source of information on this or any other action, is the Official History. Quite expensive so you may well want to get the appropriate volume from the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 The Cambridgeshire Regiment has it's own Regimental History, available in reprinted form. I know Peterborough Library has a copy for loan. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 Everyone is being rather coy - on 31st July, 1917 the Cambs were in support while the 118th brigade attacked through Kitchener's Wood and St Julian. They suffered from an exposed flank leading to counter attacks forcing them to withdraw to the Steenbeek. On 26th September, 118th brigade took part in the Battle of Polygon Wood. The Cambs attacked but met very boggy ground and only A company was able to keep up with the barrage. However, all objectives were taken apart from a large pillbox on the left of the front. Hope this helps, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 The Cambridgeshires, 1914-1919, by Riddell and Clayton, referred to by Stebie, is an excellent book; well worth buying if available. The description (by Riddell, who commanded the battalion at the time) of the attack at St Julien on 31st July, 1917, is first class. Just buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 14 May , 2008 Share Posted 14 May , 2008 As an FT you may know there is an original copy of Riddell & Claytons History;in both Wisbech & March Libraries,in the reference libraries{& no doubt other town libraries throughout the Fens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 May , 2008 Share Posted 15 May , 2008 Gosh, HarryB....proper books in a Library. Where did they put the multiple technology interpretation centre? I'd write to my Councillor, if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff brown Posted 15 May , 2008 Share Posted 15 May , 2008 The book is available as a reprint from Naval and Military Press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broad Arrow Posted 15 May , 2008 Share Posted 15 May , 2008 From about £15 on Amazon. I have just bought and read a copy and its worth every penny. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridgeshires-19...8745&sr=8-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen Tiger Posted 15 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2008 From about £15 on Amazon. I have just bought and read a copy and its worth every penny. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridgeshires-19...8745&sr=8-3 Well thank you all for the information it really has been a great help. What do you use as your main source of information? I've just bought the book mentioned above and hope to have it next week but at least I can start getting a bit of research done at the National Archives looking up war diaries. If anyone else has got any other little gems that might help me along please speak up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff brown Posted 16 May , 2008 Share Posted 16 May , 2008 I've been researching the Cambs Rgt for over 25 years and have loads of info. What is it you are looking for? Are you researching a relative or just the regiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 16 May , 2008 Share Posted 16 May , 2008 FT Welcome to the Forum. I did have the War Diary for 1/1st Cambridgeshires for 31 July but cannot find it at the moment. 3 of the men who died on that day were:- Captain RW Hill in White House Cemetery Private FW Vann in Buffs Road Cemetery Captain Arthur John Gray also in Buffs Road The latter was born in Cambridge and was 5’ 8 ¼” tall. He went to Perse Grammar School in Cambridge where he was in the cadet corps and OTC. He was a bookbinder by trade but had joined 2/1 Suffolk Yeomanry in October 1909 and extended his service for a further year in 1913. 5/8/14 A/Lcpl in Suffolk Yeomanry 17/12/14 L/Cpl 9/2/15 Cpl 22/3/15 Applied for commission 13/4/15 Left for officer training I have a picture of his grave somewhere if you want it. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff brown Posted 16 May , 2008 Share Posted 16 May , 2008 Here's a summary of events of 31-7-17 and the following days... 31st July 1917: 5.30am 118th Brigade advanced in artillery formation. Cheshires on right, Herts in centre and 4/5th BW on left, with Cambs in reserve moving behind BW. 6.30am the three leading btns in Blue line and 1st Cambs on X line. 7.30am 116th & 117th Brigades took Black line. 118th Brigade advanced. Cambs advanced at 10.30am disposed as follows - two coys on a line east and west of 250yds north of Border House, with two coys in reserve and due west of Border House and one detailed to support 4/5 BW at C1815.5. At 10.10am brigade moved forward to attack the Solid Green line. 10.54am Solid Green line captured by Cheshires. 10.50am counter attack from most eastern part of Langemarke line on Herts who had lost all officers. BW had to fall back to conform. Cambs attacked with two coys and drove Germans back. By 5pm the line was back on Dotted Green Line with exception of 4/5 BW. At this time Cambs attacked at Border House and beat Germans back. Germans were around flank so Cambs ordered to retire south of Hannebeke. At 5.30pm they were at Canvas Tr-Canteen Tr. 10pm ordered to withdraw through 116th and 117th Brigades. August 1st: 1.30pm Cambs Rgt reassembled in Coney Street and roll called. A, B and HQ in tunnels at Belle Alliance and C & D in Coney Street. Due to casualties, re-organised btn into two coys. Aug 2nd: About noon orders received that Germans expected to counter-attack. Btn moved into support in Calf Trench (old German front line). 9pm, btn to occupy Blue and Dotted Blue Lines from Mouse Trap Farm to Krupp Farm - whole neighbourhood almost 12 inches deep in mud. No II Coy on right in position aout 2.30am, but No I on left did not get into position until 5am. 3rd: Btn HQ in old dugout in Caliban Trench. 4th: 2pm orders received that btn would relieve 17th Sherwood Foresters in front line - relief completed by midnight. No 1 coy in Dotted Blue line in front of Steenbeck, No 2 at Alberta. Btn HQ in Black Line at Kitchener’s Wood. 5th: 11pm btn relieved by 1/4th Ox & Bucks, moved to camp near Reigensburg Chateau. Casualties 31/7 to 6/8: Killed - Capt F C Jonas, Capt B M Hunter RAMC, 2nd Lt A H Muirhead, Lt A J Gray, att 118th Brigade; 2nd Lt A W Rash, 4th Suffolks; Capt C L Awberry, 4th Essex. DoW - 2nd Lt W Ritchie; 2nd Lt R Hill. Wounded: Capt A Dunlop, Lt C L Tebbutt, Lt A Fison, 2nd Lts G Smith, G Blackburn, F Spicer, B Silk, E Twelvetrees, H Raven. Other ranks - 30 killed, 26 missing, two wounded and missing, 215 wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen Tiger Posted 16 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2008 Thanks everyone! This has been a great place to get started! I'm a little too far away from a public libary at the moment but I look forward to getting the book and really getting stuck in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABSWILLIAMSON Posted 10 June , 2008 Share Posted 10 June , 2008 photos i have a collection of photo graphs of the cambridgeshire regiment e company in which my grandfather served . If any one would like a emaled image please contact me at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14kvn Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Here's a summary of events of 31-7-17 and the following days... 31st July 1917: 5.30am 118th Brigade advanced in artillery formation. Cheshires on right, Herts in centre and 4/5th BW on left, with Cambs in reserve moving behind BW. 6.30am the three leading btns in Blue line and 1st Cambs on X line. 7.30am 116th & 117th Brigades took Black line. 118th Brigade advanced. Cambs advanced at 10.30am disposed as follows - two coys on a line east and west of 250yds north of Border House, with two coys in reserve and due west of Border House and one detailed to support 4/5 BW at C1815.5. At 10.10am brigade moved forward to attack the Solid Green line. 10.54am Solid Green line captured by Cheshires. 10.50am counter attack from most eastern part of Langemarke line on Herts who had lost all officers. BW had to fall back to conform. Cambs attacked with two coys and drove Germans back. By 5pm the line was back on Dotted Green Line with exception of 4/5 BW. At this time Cambs attacked at Border House and beat Germans back. Germans were around flank so Cambs ordered to retire south of Hannebeke. At 5.30pm they were at Canvas Tr-Canteen Tr. 10pm ordered to withdraw through 116th and 117th Brigades. Hi Cliff Very detailed and interesting. My Grandfather was wounded on 31/07/1917 at St Juliaan. Now whilst he was originally in the 1/1 Cambs as a Gunner ( going to France / Flanders on 14/02/1915 ) he was transferred to the MGC on 27/07 /1916. Now my question is ( and forgive any ignorance on my part ) was the MGC 118 and the 1/1 Cambs 118 linked in any way ? It would seem to me a big coincidence if his old and new units were together on a specific day. A further point ( sorry it's a bit off topic ) but I notice his medals only refer to The Cambs R and there is nothing about his time in the MGC although it is noted on his Discharge Certificate. Is this normal ? Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 What happened with most Vickers machine gunners on creation of the Machine Gun Corps is that they were moved from their infantry battalion and posted to the Machine Gun Company attached to their Infantry Brigade. The Cambridgeshire's situation is a bit "stickier" as the 1/1 Cambridgeshires were a Training Battalion at about the time when the MGC switch around was happening (February/March 1916). If they were still a training battalion when things were switched then he could have gone to any Machine Gun Company. Otherwise, he would probably have gone to join the 118th Machine Gun Company (1/1 Cambs were attached to 118th Infantry Brigade of 39th Division from February 1916). From your mention of "118", I assume the later was what happened. In May 1918 the 1/1 Cambs transferred to 35th Brigade in 12th Division, and at this point the ex-Cambridgeshire men of the 118th Machine Gun Company would have been left behind as the Cambridgeshires transferred elsewhere. It was also around this time that a further consolidation of the Machine Gun Corps was done with 118th Machine Gun Company merging with the other Machine Gun Companies of 39th Division to form 39th Machine Gun Battalion. http://www.1914-1918.net/cambridge.htm Medals were (nearly) always inscribed with the first unit that a man saw overseas service with.... I hope that makes some sense! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff brown Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 The original machine gunners of the 1/1st Cambs were indeed posted to 118th Brigade MGC in 39th Div. The 118th was formed from the gunners serving in the infantry battalions of 118th Brigade - 1/1st Cambs, 1/1st Herts, 4/5th Black Watch and 1/6th Cheshires. Stebie's point about being a training btn relates to their time at 3rd Army Training School, but they joined 39th Div at end of Feb 1916, just in time for the gunners to go off to MGC. The Cambs Rgt war diary has the following... February 1916 29th: Btn joins 118th Brigade, 39th Division. MARCH 1916 March 1916 21st: Lt Assheton & 2nd Lt Gore + 47 other ranks attached to 118th MG Coy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14kvn Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 What happened with most Vickers machine gunners on creation of the Machine Gun Corps is that they were moved from their infantry battalion and posted to the Machine Gun Company attached to their Infantry Brigade. The Cambridgeshire's situation is a bit "stickier" as the 1/1 Cambridgeshires were a Training Battalion at about the time when the MGC switch around was happening (February/March 1916). If they were still a training battalion when things were switched then he could have gone to any Machine Gun Company. Otherwise, he would probably have gone to join the 118th Machine Gun Company (1/1 Cambs were attached to 118th Infantry Brigade of 39th Division from February 1916). From your mention of "118", I assume the later was what happened. In May 1918 the 1/1 Cambs transferred to 35th Brigade in 12th Division, and at this point the ex-Cambridgeshire men of the 118th Machine Gun Company would have been left behind as the Cambridgeshires transferred elsewhere. It was also around this time that a further consolidation of the Machine Gun Corps was done with 118th Machine Gun Company merging with the other Machine Gun Companies of 39th Division to form 39th Machine Gun Battalion. http://www.1914-1918.net/cambridge.htm Medals were (nearly) always inscribed with the first unit that a man saw overseas service with.... I hope that makes some sense! Steve. Hi Steve Many thanks - that is very helpful. Yes I was aware that the Cambs were sent to the Third Army VII Corps Training School at Flixecourt in Late 1915 ( I have the date as 15/11/1915) when the 27th Division were sent to Salonika from the salient . I am aware that 40 men from the Cambs were transferred to the MGC on 29/02/1916 ( Service Nos 21926 to 21965 ) but for some reason my Grandfather was not transferred until later ( 27 July 1916 - his new number was 22838 ) so I assume he was still with the Cambs until then but I know not where. Also I am not sure if the July transfer was to the 118 or not - all I know is his MGC badge Certificate number was 39/524 which I assume is that he was the 524th man to receive a War Badge in the MGC 39th Division. I had not appreciated that the Infantry and MGC in the same brigade would always have been together in the same field of action. I do know he was at what he called the Battle of Ancre on 13/11/1916 with the MGC so I wonder if the Cambs were there also ? Thanks for the info about the medals - the other interesting point is that his rank on these medals is his MGC rank and not his earlier Cambs rank. Thanks again Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Just to address the apparent discrepancy between the date of attachment to 118th (Brigade) Machine Gun Company on 21-3-1916 and the date of transfer to the MGC of 27-7-1916: The Machine Gun Corps was a Regular Army only Corps (i.e. no Territorial section). To transfer to the MGC, the soldiers had to be voluntarily discharged from the Territorial Force and then re-enlisted as Regular Army soldiers and transferred to the Machine Gun Corps. The four month gap is probably explained by good old fashioned "red tape". In the meantime, the soldiers would still have been Cambridgeshire Regiment soldiers, but attached to 118th Brigade Machine Gun Company (the "Brigade" part of the name was dropped after a couple of months). EDIT: It is however odd that the new numbers were so early. Most of those I have seen under the T.F./Regulars switch have numbers from 40000+ Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Medals for Other Ranks were inscribed to: 1914-15 Star - Rank number & unit on date of embarkation. BWM/VM - Number & unit on date of embarkation, plus highest rank obtained whilst overseas (even if not with the first unit). Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14kvn Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 EDIT: It is however odd that the new numbers were so early. Most of those I have seen under the T.F./Regulars switch have numbers from 40000+ Steve. Hi Again Steve I have a copy of a page of The Roll of Individuals entitled to the War Badge for the MGC 39th Div. The Regtl. No. does not seem to relate to the Enlistment date at all. My Grandfather's enlistment date is the latest one on that page and other numbers range from 4615 to 98250 all of whom enlisted before he did. So there certainly does not seem to be any chronological order to the numbers. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14kvn Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Medals for Other Ranks were inscribed to: 1914-15 Star - Rank number & unit on date of embarkation. BWM/VM - Number & unit on date of embarkation, plus highest rank obtained whilst overseas (even if not with the first unit). Steve. Hi Steve My Grandfathers 1914-15 star does not have the embarkation date on it ( which was 14/02/1915 ) . The BWM / VM are as you say. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Sorry, I phrased that badly. The 1914-15 Stars should have the details of the rank, number and unit, which are those that the soldier had at the time of his embarkation overseas. The medals do not show exact dates at all. Using Silver war Badge roll dates usually confuses the issue considerably, since you could have, for example, the following situation: No. 50001 in the Machine Gun Corps - enlisted 4-9-1914 into an Infantry Regiment and transferred to MGC on say 1-8-1916. Date of enlistment on MGC Roll = 4-9-1914. No. 50002 in the Machine Gun Corps - attested 11-12-1915 under the Derby Scheme. Called up, 31-3-1916. Posted to an Infantry Reserve battalion, 31-3-1916. Transferred to MGC in 1-8-1916. Date of enlistment on MGC Roll = 11-12-1915. No. 50003 in the Machine Gun Corps - Conscripted, 31-7-1916. Posted to MGC on 1-8-1916. Date of enlistment on MGC Roll = 31-7-1916. i.e. three consecutive numbers with wildly differing enlistment dates! In other words, you can only rely on SWB roll enlistment dates when you know the context in which the date is given. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finkill Posted 1 May , 2009 Share Posted 1 May , 2009 hello I have just read your post and have just started to investigate Benjamin Richardson from Whittlesey - I think that was E company originally - so would be very grateful if the offer of photos is still open regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now