Bob Coulson Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 Captain Dodgson was KIA at Contalmaison on 10-7-16 with the 8th Yorkshires. Could somebody tell me if his memorial stone is still in place west of Contalmaison. Also I am led to believe his original grave marker is at Salisbury Cathedral, can anyone confirm this.? Would be most grateful for any help. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 It's still there Bob - saw it only the other day. Charles Fair, a member of this forum, is "related" to this officer - I am sure he will reply in due course. Dodgson's grave is at Serre No 2 Cemetery now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 Bob As Paul has mentioned I am almost related to him. He was the fiancee of my grandmother, Marjorie Secretan, and was killed a few weeks before they were due to be married on his next leave. The memorial stone is beside the track in the small valley just SW of Contalmaison. It was moved in the 1960s from its original location, his original burial site, which was about 70 yards further West in the middle of the field. His grave marker is indeed in the cloister of Salisbury Cathedral, alongside that of his brother Guy, dow 14/11/1918. He is buried at Serre No. 2. He is also on Thiepval, high up on the Yorkshires panel, but not in the register. He is also commemorated in the Memorial Hall in Marlborough College, at the parish church of Bovingdon, Herts, and is listed in the Stock Exchange memorial volume. I am actually wearing his signet ring at this moment. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 4 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2004 Paul/Charles, Most grateful for your helpful and informative replies. Currently trying to put together a brief bio of officers of the Yorkshire Regiment who died 1914-1919. As you may guess I have now got to the letter D. This is a very long term project of mine and will no doubt take a year or two. Charles I have Francis Dodgson as born Sheffield, is this correct do you know? Once again many thanks to you both. If anyone else has info on Yorks Regt officers please drop me a line. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 4 February , 2004 Share Posted 4 February , 2004 Bob, I can't confirm whether he was born in Sheffield - what is your source? I havent yet tracked down his birth certificate. I believe there was a family connection with Yorkshire (the nature of which I dont yet know) and he was born in the county which explains why he joined the regiment. However the family must have moved down to Hertfordshire when he was quite young as the family stockbroking firm Hope Dodgson was operating in the city well before 1906. He went to Marlborough College, but I dont know where he went to prep school. Here is the memorial as it was a summer or two ago, beside the track, with the village at the top of the slope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 4 February , 2004 Share Posted 4 February , 2004 ....and a close up of the memorial. The letters were originally painted in (I plan to restore this one day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 4 February , 2004 Share Posted 4 February , 2004 Charles I do not understand, he is in Serre # 2 and on Thiepval Memorial. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 4 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2004 Charles, I took the place of birth from a census search, the only Francis Dodgson who came up seems to fit with his age. Marvellous pictures, many thanks for posting them. I will make a point of visiting his memorial on one of my trips. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 Paul, It appears to be a case of paperwork not catching up with the Graves Registration Unit or IWGC. He was missing for some weeks after, then eywitness accounts confirmed that he had been killed. A grave must have been dug soon after, and this was recorded by the GRU, as I have photos of the crosses. The grave was in good shape at Christmas 1917, as my grandfather who had married my grandmother in Sept 1917 visited the grave that day. However, I think it may have become lost, probably during the March retreat or the August 1918 offensive. I have some evidence fom family letters dated 1919 or 1920 that the IWGC could no longer find the grave. Presumably he was at this time then listed as missing and put down on the list for Thiepval. His body must have been found - since he is in Serre No. 2 - in the 1920s, but this information may not have have got through in time to the people carving the panel at Thiepval. His name is there, but he is obviously not in the register, because he is buried somewhere else. I have yet to check out the CWGC archive to see if they have further info on this, particularly the date his grave was rediscovered. I presume that when that panel eventually needs to be replaced his name will not be recarved. Bob, thanks, I havent checked the family out on the census. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 5 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2004 Very interesting story regarding his final resting place, thanks for posting that Charles. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2004 Share Posted 10 July , 2004 Just bringing this thread to the top - Capt Dodgson was killed 88 years ago today at about 5pm in the afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 10 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2004 Charles, Very nice thought, he is remembered. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Bob/Charles A few points which may be of interest to you in regard to Francis Dodgson. Firstly, I found an article at http://www.westernfront.co.uk/thegreatwar/...als/dodgson.htm with some detail on him, including a picture. But I was intrigued as to the comment about him being born on Yorkshire. I noticed from the 1901 census that the family lived at Frognal Rise, Hampstead. Father Henley, mother Helen, and brothers Philp (9) and Guy (5), but no Francis. I assume he was away at school but I haven't been able to locate him. However going back to the 1891 census, I found the family living at 13a Godhurst Terrace, St Johns, Hampstead. At that time, the family consists of Henley, Helen and the 1 year old Francis. This census shows him to have been born in Hampstead. I have the census image if you would like it to be posted. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Steve - thanks for the 1891 Census info, that is new to me, I hadnt realised that he was born in Hampstead. I think the family came from Yorkshire originally, and this got corrupted to himbeing born there. He was certainly away at prep schol by 1901. Thanks for the link, I didnt know this article was now on the web. This is the article in the WFA book "Private Memorials on the Western Front" (or something like that) by the then WFA Memorials Officer, Barrie Thorpe. Info and photos for the article provided by none other than yours truly. regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Charles Glad to have helped. I still can't find the Yorkshire link though. Both the 1901 and 1891 census record Henley F. Dodgson, the father, as being born in Woodford, Essex. I went back to the 1881 census and found the then 19 year old and single Henley recorded as a Visitor at Court Fields, Broxbourne, Herts. This is the residence of George Newbery, a 55 year old member of the LSE. Henley’s occupation is shown as “Clerk to Stockbroker”. Also at the address are George’s wife, two sons, seven daughters and four servants !! I also found Henley recorded at his home address in 1881 (not unusual in the census of those days) of 6, High Street, Sevenoaks, where he is shown with his father William (69), mother Frances (55) and two servants (a footman and a coachman). Both his father and mother are recorded as bring born in Middlesex. So still no Yorkshire link for our man. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 So still no Yorkshire link for our man. 'Curioser and curioser' as another Dodgson once wrote. I wonder how the myth came about. Many thanks for looking this up Steve, I havent yet got into census info. Henley, and later Francis, both worked for the family stockbroking firm Hope Dodgson. The family story is that Henley sadly committed suicide in 1906 at the family home which was then in Bovingdon, Herts. I dont know why, perhaps he had suffered major financial losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2006 Share Posted 10 July , 2006 Bumping this to the top on the 90th anniversary of his death. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 10 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2006 Captain Dodgson and all of the 8th Yorkshires remembered today. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2006 Share Posted 10 July , 2006 ... and those of the other units of 69 Brigade which went into action 90 years ago almost to the minute. Dodgson was killed just before 5 pm. Donald Simpson Bell of the 9th Yorkshires was killed later that evening. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Simpson_Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 9 July , 2008 Share Posted 9 July , 2008 Remembering the fallen on 69 brigade today, 92 years on. One of Capt Dodgson's letters written whilst passing through Folkestone has been incorporated into this sound installation as part of the Folkestone Triennial of public art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 10 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2008 Remembering Captain Dodgson again this morning 92 years on. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollofhonour Posted 10 July , 2008 Share Posted 10 July , 2008 Interesting thread this. I am currently working on the Stock Exchange memorial and have just completed his details. he is on this memorial and the Bovingdon, Hertfordshire memorial. There is a plaque in Bovingdon Church to him. http://www.roll-of-honour.com/London/StockExchange.html http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Hertfordshire/Bovingdon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 10 July , 2008 Share Posted 10 July , 2008 What a moving story. And to think you are actually wearing his ring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2008 Share Posted 10 July , 2008 What a moving story. And to think you are actually wearing his ring... There is even more to it than that.... See this thread on the Harkness family. I have told his story to a number of WFA branches over the years. 'There was not a dry eye in the house...' etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2008 Share Posted 10 July , 2008 Interesting thread this. I am currently working on the Stock Exchange memorial and have just completed his details. he is on this memorial and the Bovingdon, Hertfordshire memorial. There is a plaque in Bovingdon Church to him. Martin, thanks for the links. I've been meaning to go and look at the Stock Exchange memorial as I am now working not far away from it. His GRU cross is in the cloisters of Salisbury cathedral, and he is also commemorated in the Memorial Hall at Marlborough. I see that the SE memorial has a John Henley Dodgson, 5 RWK, who must have been a cousin to Francis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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