andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 This person appears in a photo we have and may be one of my ancestors - the person it is supposed to be served in the Sherwood Foresters and possibly previously in the Queens Royal West Surreys. If anybody can suggest what the badge on his cap is I'd be grateful ta ancdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 It's a General Service tunic button, I think. I'm not an expert but I'm sure I have read (here on the forum) that these were used for a time in the absence of proper cap-badges. I'm sure a more knowledgeable Pal will be able to tell us more. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 GS buttons were indeed used as cap badges, but only by the Training Reserve and this is actually mentioned in an ACI regarding their formation. However this looks much darker and appears to belong to a Rifle unit and so would appreciate it if it could be possibly blown up much larger for us to see. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 The cap buttons also appear black, if the GS button was acting as a cap badge I would have expected a bit more spit and polish. I would like to see the full picture as the coat buttons may come into view. Hint of Rifles Standing Orders so far. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Cap Badge Detail - high resolution detail. Sorry it doesn't show much detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Full image of photo figure - the chap from the RA he's with (not shown) is in wonderful detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 If you let us have his name, i can check to see if he was in the Sherwood Foresters. sm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 That cloth patch at the top of his sleeve. Can you close-up on it? Looks like it might be the sort worn by some London Regiments...possibly says "QWR" or "CSR" (which might account for the rifle-pattern button). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 It's been labeled on the back as Fred Osgood - there is another post on this forum which shows him as having been in 10th Sherwood Foresters and gassed in 1918. However my digging through this heap of family photos so far has given me grave concern that the people whose names are written on the back aren't actually the ones shown in the photos! Given that the other person in this studio portrait picture has an artillery cap badge I'm guessing this is the Henry Tanner who is mentioned in the other thread. If that's the case then this chap is definitely Fred Osgood, but given the dubious nature of the picture naming the fact that he's not wearing a Sherwood Foresters cap badge made me concerned...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 The button looks Rifle Pattern, you can just make out the curve of the horn, with the knot of the chord above. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 That cloth patch at the top of his sleeve. Can you close-up on it? Looks like it might be the sort worn by some London Regiments...possibly says "QWR" or "CSR" (which might account for the rifle-pattern button). Any better? I don't think a higher resolution scan will bring out any details you can't see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 I'm almost certain the cloth shoulder title reads "Q.V.R.", which would mean he served with 9th(County of London)Bn, The London Regt(Queen Victoria's Rifles) and I'll attach a photo of their button. Oops sorry two images. This of course doesn't mean to say that he may have also worn the standard blackened "Rifle" pattern button instead. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 The 10th lost many men killed and wounded on 15th August 1918 from a german gas attack. He is only shown as being in the Sherwood Foresters, so not much help there. sm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 I'm almost certain the cloth shoulder title reads "Q.V.R.", which would mean he served with 9th(County of London)Bn, The London Regt(Queen Victoria's Rifles) Graham. Well, he grew up just where Surrey joins greater London - I've always wondered how he came to be in the Sherwood Foresters when he was killed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Grew up in Surrey? Enlisted in Surrey? I wonder if this is him: Possibly! Name: OSGOOD, Frederick Regiment, Corps etc.: Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment) Battalion etc.: 10th Battalion. Last name: Osgood First name(s): Frederick Initials: F Birthplace: Hersham, Surrey Enlisted: Kingston, Surrey Residence: Walton-On-Thames, Surrey Rank: PRIVATE Number: 96046 Date died: 15 September 1918 How died: Died of wounds Theatre of war: Home Supplementary Notes: FORMERLY 6354, QUEEN'S ROYAL WEST SURREY REGT. Name: OSGOOD Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment) Unit Text: 10th Bn. Age: 30 Date of Death: 15/09/1918 Service No: 96046 Additional information: Son of Henry and Elizabeth Osgood. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: South-East of Church. Cemetery: HERSHAM (ST. PETER) CHURCHYARD Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 That's our ('ersham) boy! What's the number 19352 on the first item, it doesn't match either of the service numbers? It says here that the 3/4th battalion of the Royal West Surreys was disbanded in France in Feb '18 and the personnel added to other battalions - is it possible he was transferred to the Sherwood Foresters then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 I think the number is an internal reference number, and not a Regimental number. There are a few Sherwood Foresters experts here who could give a more educated guess, but I'll take a guess at October 1917 as the date of the 96049 number. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Looking at the numbers around him, this looks like a Draft of men transferred into the Foresters. Type in 9604? (Keywords) and Nott* (Corps) into the MIC search and see how all the surnames are alphabetical. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 I've tracked down a couple of the soldiers in the batch transfer with online service records (A to C) Cyril Howard Bird, 96012; Morris Robert Clark, 96013, 96009 Wiliam Brailsford to name three. Unfortunately they seem to be in the "crispy" section of the Burnt Records. A recurring date is 12-9-1917 which seems to be they last date these men served at "Home" before embarking to France. This MAY be Fred's date of embarkation too. Edit: A readable page (ish....) on 96013 Morris Clark: 6336 is his Queen's Royal West Surrey's number, also fairly close to Fred's No. Filling in the gaps (somewhat dangerous), we could interpret: Attested 20-10-1915. Services not yet required due to family/work exemptions? Posted to Army Reserve. Recalled to the Army, c. October 1916 and posted to the Queens' Royal West Surrey Regiment. Embarked to France, 13-9-1917. Arrive at an infantry base depot in France, 13-9-1917. Posted to 12th Battalion Notts & Derby Regiment, 13-9-1917. Posted to10th Sherwood Foresters, 21-9-1917 At the moment, I'm taking a real leap of faith that it was indeed the 10th Bn that all these men joined in September 1917. You may need to cross-reference the men in this batch to CWGc / Medal Rolls, etc., but they certainly seem to have been transferred as a group. 96013 Morris Robert Clark certainly finished his war with the 10th Sherwoods, Discharged to Reserve in 1919. Numbers range, 96003 John W Amos to 96064 Louis White. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Another one, William Brailsford, 96009. Name: BRAILSFORD, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment) Unit Text: 10th Bn. Date of Death: 12/10/1917 Service No: 96009 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 99 to 102 and 162 to 162A. Memorial: TYNE COT MEMORIAL (An ex-Derbyshire Yeomanry man. Same batch, same date of transfer. Landed in France, transferred briefly to the 12th bn, and then to the 10th.) Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Thanks, that's wonderful. I'm exceedingly grateful :-) I've just spotted something about this photo which may cast even further doubt on it's attribution, beyond the fact that the unit seems to be one in which he never served - he's wearing corporal's stripes, and he was a private when he died. OK so he may have been a naughty boy and got busted down, or perhaps this is a picture of somebody else entirely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 (An ex-Derbyshire Yeomanry man. Same batch, same date of transfer. Landed in France, transferred briefly to the 12th bn, and then to the 10th.) Steve. I may have another relative who finished the war (prob alive) with the Notts and Derby having been in the Derbyshire Yeomanry bicycle unit :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Fine - except that in between the Queens and Notts and Derbys he was also transferred at some stage to the 9th(C.O.L.)Bn, London Regt(Queen Victorias Rifles) as previously identified from his insignia in the photo - i.e. button for cap badge and Q.V.R. shoulder title on his greatcoat. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Happy to help, Andy. Graham, I think Andy is not sure whether the picture is in fact Fred Osgood. Unless his service records are in the unreleased (online) section we may never know! A further pic of Brailsfords file, ex 2/1 Derbyshire Yeomanry: Includes the number of the Infantry Base Depot that the draft seems to have gone through - No 14 at Calais. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andiS Posted 25 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Fine - except that in between the Queens and Notts and Derbys he was also transferred at some stage to the 9th(C.O.L.)Bn, London Regt(Queen Victorias Rifles) as previously identified from his insignia in the photo - i.e. button for cap badge and Q.V.R. shoulder title on his greatcoat. Graham. I agree with your interpretation of the letters on his shoulder title, definitely. Err..... Do you think he borrowed somebody else's greatcoat (ok, so I AM just being silly here..) I'm working on a theory that it's actually somebody from the other side of the family whom my mum mis-identified as Fred - given the evidence piling up thanks to the stirling efforts of everybody who've posted so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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