what items did next of kin receive

[douglass]

This may be a silly question but what items (if any) would the next of kin receive if a soldier was KIA, AND Also if his body was never found.

another question was were any type of pension/monies given to next of kin etc for this.

any advice appreciated

douglass

[doogal]

Hi,

I can in part way answer your question.

The National Army Museum currently holds details of deceased soldiers "effects" that were held by the army.

However, before you begin to imagine retrieving long lost bits and pieces, what this amounts to as tally of what money the army still owed the soldier at the time of his death. Neverthe less, if you contact the NAM, for £15 they can pull out the details held on the soldier you are interested in if you have his army number and name.

I like the irony that the army owed my Gt grandfather something like £15 at the time, which would have gone to his family. Now they have it back.

regards

doogal

[Max (UK)]

That is interesting - I did not know that about the National Army Museum. Are the effects that they are responsible for always just monetary?

Regarding some of my deceased relatives, the families have received the scroll, death plaque, medals. One widow received a package of the items that he had on him when he was killed - there was a page in his service papers listing all the items - pipe, coins, penknife, etc, etc.

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Like Max, i have service papers for a casualty, personal effects sent to the family were:

aluminium ring

pack of Raynor cigarette cards

correspondence

photographs

That's it.

Oh, and he was 16..............

[Willywombat]

Typical, I suppose, is the list of items returned to the family of 2/Lt Straker of the 3rd Monmouths, killed 7/7/16 on the Somme:

1 ring

1 wristwatch (damaged)

1 Ingersol watch

1 fountain pen

1 pocket knife

1 pair nail scissors

2 pipes

1 tobacco pouch

1 whistle and lanyard

1 handkerchief

1 revolver and holster

2 receipts

1 notebook

1 pencil

2 photographs

1 pocket diary

1 combined knife fork and spoon

1 cigar cutter

1 book of common prayer

[centurion]

Interesting that the revolver was returned to the family - were officer's revolvers regarded as personal property?

One can see the changes that time has wrought - if one had a list for a notional modern 2nd Lt how many things would be different? Pipes and cigar cutter? Fountain pen? two watches? The fountain pen would probably be replaced by a roller ball (although I still use my fountain pen but then I'm an old fogey) the diary might be electronic and you'd expect a mobile phone etc.

[regtcollector]

Hi all, Officers generally shopped for their own kit and many carried personal preference revolvers which they would have bought themselves, interesting though by todays ideas re gun control that they would send his revolver home. I have papers for an officer who was commisioned from the ranks and received payment and 3 days leave to go shop for his new kit. Sometimes a mans commanding officer sent some personal items home to a no doubt greiving family on request. Cheers Ian.

[DaveBrigg]

Below is the list of items returned for an officer of the Lincolnshire Regt, killed at Passchendaele (Broodseinde). He was listed as 'missing' but there was obviously a presumption of death. The four unopened letters tell their own story. Apparently his family had his sword too, which was for some time afterwards displayed in the parish church.

[Dickie]

Interesting document, Dave. Anyone know any details about the 'Knowledge For War' book? A quick Google didn't throw up any hits.

[truthergw]

As a slight variation on this theme. My Grandfather died in a German hospital well to the rear. My Grandmother received a package and letter in English, from a medical attendant. It gave some details of his wound etc and explained that as well as the contents of the package, he had in his pockets, chocolate and pipe tobacco. This had been shared among other patients in the ward, as was the custom. In the package were some photographs, letters received, a pipe, an unsent embroidered postcard, some French money. All of this is anecdotal, although I have seen the photographs.

[Procat]

The personal effects of one great uncle were:

Strap

Scarf

Cap comforter

Letters

Another:

1 Prayer book

1 Bible

2 Wallets

Photos

2 Cards

2 Letters

Another:

Purse

Rosary

Badge

Metal wrist watch

Coin

Not a great deal to hand down to future generations.

Doug

[doogal]

Hi,

The attached imsge is a scan of the information i recieved from the NAM, so slightly different to the items listed above.

...and a stiff neck. Sorry, it's best I could do for the moment.

regards

doogal

[Max (UK)]

Doogal,

Thanks for posting the form - very interesting. Cheers

Max.

[Ryegate]

Hi

I was very interested to read these postings as I had no idea the National Army Museum still hold these records.

I faxed them around lunch time today asking if I could pay for a list of personal effects they may have for Walter James Burgess (whose army records are amongst those that have not survived and I am hoping I can at least get some knowledge of him by other means).

I am awaiting a reply and hope that I do receive some communication from them.

Does anyone have a better idea on how to ensure you get some feedback from them, other than faxing them?

Regards

[Max (UK)]

I don't know mate (hopefully someone else can help) - but very interested to hear what reply you get ! Please let us know.

[eltoro1960]

On a similar vein as Ryegate, I am trying to find out as much information about a man who is not commemorated on the local war memorial, Vasaily Nikitenko RGA. His wages lay unclaimed for several years despite listings on the London Gazette, I suspect however his NOK did not speak / read English, would the NAM be able to supply any more information at all such as an enlistment address?

Cheers - John

[DaveMurphy]

If you want to gain a good understanding for free, you can find many soldiers kit sent to NOK in the Australian Service Records here:

http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/defen...ts/ww1/ww1.html.

An example is my wife's great uncle Major (name not rank!) Johnston who was KIA at the Battle of Romani whose effects returned were:

1 x Testament, notebook, pocket book, 2 x razors, 1 x belt, 3 x pairs gloves, 1 x balaclava cap, 1 x scarf, 4 x handkerchiefs, 1 x toothbrush, badges, armlet,

1 x suspender, 1 x rabbit skin rug.

I am sure all the warm stuff would have come in handy in the Palestine deserts!

Cheers,

Dave

[Ryegate]

Hi Max

I will definitely let you know if I get any further.

Regards

[auchonvillerssomme]

I have an officers buttons, badges, wound stripe, whistle and an MC ribbon taken from his uniform by a nursing sister who was with him when he died and sent to his family. and also a letter from his brother to the war office asking why the deceased effects were sent to his father despite the officers written wishes against this.

Mick

[girlywhirl]

This document was part of the service records of one of my wife's family, in WO363.

Chris

[Kath]

Even if a man was not found some of his belongings might survive at his base.

Presumably there would be no effects of men lost at sea?

Kath.

[Ryegate]

Hi everyone

If I do get a response from the National Army Museum (in any case, I will phone them on Monday) I will let you all know and at the same time ask them exactly what is available in their records.

For £15, knowing what the soldier owned at the time of his death is a great bargain!

I am wondering if Walter James Burgess had a pocket watch. My grandfather (his father) always wore one and I know my grandfather gave a pocket watch to another of his sons. I am wondering if it was Walter's.

Just knowing what they had in personal effects is a great way of getting to know them especially if like me, you are unable to get his service record.

Regards

[doogal]

Hi everyone

For £15, knowing what the soldier owned at the time of his death is a great bargain!

Be aware that is what he was owed by the British Army, rather than what he owned at the time of his death.

regards

doogal

[Ryegate]

Thanks Doogal

Still worth £15 don't you think?

If only they would answer my fax or telephone calls!

I am going to keep trying so hopefully, will get a response at some time in the future.

Will keep you posted

Regards

[colin.green14]

Hi Ryegate,

I guess you have still had no response to your fax and calls, I have tried an e-mail to them today. if answered will tell all.

Best Regards

Colin