Guest calcaria Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 Whilst researching local papers in Leeds the other day i came across an artical on Sergt Major James Pateman of Hyde Park leeds. Who passed away In a Canadian Hospital (I presume this was at Etaples) from Pneumonia aged 63. James had served 23 years in the army being in India and taking part in the Afghan war, and had served in the 8th Kings Irish hussars the Kings bodyguard, and the Yeoman of the guard Indeed James was one of the four men who kept watch over King Edwards body at Westminster Hall. When war broke out he was in charge of the Leeds City Tramways at Headingley, and immediatly went to Windsor Castle to become part of the the Kings Bodyguard. Three months later James recieved a letter from the King giving him permission to rejoin the army. He was attached to the Remount Corps at Shirehampton and went to the front on Good Friday 1915, he passed away on the 07/05/1917 leaving a wife and three daughters, James lies in Boulogne Eastern Cemetery. So is this the oldest man to give his life at the front ? he has to be the oldest from Leeds. Dave http://www.tadcaster-ww1-memorials.com/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 Dave, To answer your question, no he isn't, by a long way. The oldest was: Name: WEBBER, HENRY Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment Unit Text: 7th Bn. Age: 68 Date of Death: 21/07/1916 Additional information: Son of William Webber, M.D., and Eliza Webber (nee Preston); husband of the late Emily Webber (nee Morris). Native of Horley, Surrey. For over 40 years a member of the London Stock Exchange. Henry Webber is the oldest known battle death recorded for the First World War. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. E. 54. Cemetery: DARTMOOR CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 68. Wow. How did he ever get out of the trenches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 Henry Webber is the oldest known battle death recorded for the First World War. Does anyone know if, when it says "recorded", it means recorded by CWGC? And, therefore, there may well be someone older who fought with other armies. Or is it that he is the oldest known, world-wide? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 He is the oldest WW1 battle death recorded by CWGC in Commonwealth forces. There are many men in the CWGC database for whom no age was given and so there could be an older one amongst these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 His name is on the Horley War Memorial in Surrey,also there is a screen in the Church erected in His Memory by His Family,also in this Churchyard is an unusual inscription on a Family Headstone,which mentions a Pte Edward John Lockyear,KIA in France when a trench Mortar exploded on His Dug Out while he was asleep,i think lockyear is on the Loos Mem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 CWGC records 239 WW1 casualties aged 65 or over. 46 of them were over 70 years and 4 were over 80. The oldest is Capt George Clements of the 1st (Royal) Dragoons aged 85. Died 03.03.16. Quite a few were Mercantile Marine men and, of course, many died of illness rather than in battle but it is interesting how many were still serving their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 22 August , 2006 Share Posted 22 August , 2006 Of the 239 who were 65 years old or more, 22 died in war zones overseas (mostly Western Front but also Iraq, Greece, Gallipoli etc) and 108 died at sea and were never recovered. The others died whilst serving in in the UK or Dominions. There is a man of 76 on the Menin Gate - presumably died of illness/accident and whose grave was later lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Admiral Sir Reginald Bacon (Concise History of the Dover Patrol, pp. 103 and 245) says of Lt Cmdr Henry Gartside-Tipping, captain of HM Yacht Sanda that he was '...the oldest Naval officer serving at sea. This gallant officer returned to the Navy at an age when most men were beyond active service, being over seventy years of age, and undertook the duties of captain of a yacht in the Dover Command ...' Bacon presented Gartside-Tipping to George V when the King visited Dover on 24 September 1915. The following day Gartside-Tipping was killed when Sanda was struck and sunk by shore batteries off Zeebrugge. According to his CWGC record, Gartside-Tipping was in fact only 67 years old. He is commemorated on the Nieuport Memorial. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 We tend to think of youngsters pretending to be older to get into the forces but it must have happened in reverse also - older men shaving off a few years to get accepted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Most of these old men probably died well away from the line but for Webber:- "Col Winser collected his officers to give out his verbal orders for this operation (near High Wood) but an 8" shell burst within 15 yds of where the party was sitting, killing or wounding 2 officers, 10 men and 3 horses and smashing a cooker and the officers` mess cart". Lt Webber was killed on this occasion. He was ex-Master of the Old Surrey and Burstow Hunt. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 We should not forget John and terry's earlier duel about this topic: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...oldest+casualty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Dear Terry, Is there any way I could look up who the oldest (and possibly youngest) casuality in Gallipoli was ?? Can this be done with the CWGC site or ??? thanks in advance eric PS : as youngest İ have now Bull (12 tree copse) and Martin James (Lone Pine memorial) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Eric This is the oldest recorded by CWGC but remember that many casualties have no age listed. Name: BRYAN, FRANCIS HENRY Initials: F H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps Unit Text: 18th Labour Coy. Age: 66 Date of Death: 13/08/1915 Service No: SS/13963 Additional information: Husband of Dinah Bryan. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 199 or 233 to 236 and 331. Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 There are six 15 year olds listed for Gallipoli. Berrills, J - Royal Dublin Fusiliers Cramer, A - 6 Bn, AIF Stott, R - Manchester Regt Hughes, W - Worcestershire Regt Willoughby, F A - RMLI Brookman, S G - RNVR, RND All on the Helles Memorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Believe there is another 15yo, Drummer Joseph Townsend 1/4th East Lancs aged 15, Skew Bridge Cemetery. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Bob You are right. I overlooked that one! There are seven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 thanks terry and bob, overlooked townsend too althought a former pm of turkey, bülent ecevit mentions him in his poem : "a postwar epic" : Mehmet then asked an English soldier who seemed to be at the playing age how old are you little brother what brought you here at such an early stage I am fifteen forever the English soldier said in the village from where I come I used to play war with the children arousing them with my drum then I found myself in the front was it real or a game before I could tell my drum fell silent as I was struck with a shell a place was dug for me in Gallipoli on my stone was inscribed drummer age fiftheen thus ended my playful task and this is the record of what I have done and what I have been From the poem “A Postwar Epic” by Bülent Ecevit Former Prime Minister of Turkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 and a pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest calcaria Posted 24 August , 2006 Share Posted 24 August , 2006 Thank You to all for your replys, i think one thing we all can agree on is that men lied about there age to get to the front ! I would not be suprised to see the oldest and youngest man on record to give their lives change as so many poeple out there are doing research of their local memorials, and as i do cross referance details using the Census records and the BMD sites. Indeed roll on 2011 when the 1911 Census is released maybe those unknown names on a war memorial will show up ! By the way i am sure i saw a report in a paper from the war referance a 14 year old Leeds boy giving his life in the Navy during the testing of a submarine near Ipswich ! Thanks Dave M Tadcaster War Memorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 24 August , 2006 Share Posted 24 August , 2006 Thanks Terry for the info and sorry Dave for briefly "hijacking" your threat ... mea culpa. eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 April , 2007 Share Posted 19 April , 2007 Henry Webber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 19 April , 2007 Share Posted 19 April , 2007 Came across an interesting account of a 65 year old British soldier who had been held prisoner by the Germans since Mons in 1914. According to the POW interview in which he is mentioned, Pte Tipper, a 65 year old of the Dragoon Guards, had originally enlisted in 1871! I've tried to find Tipper on the mic's but think there are two possibilities - wonder when the poor old boy finally got back to blighty, the interview he was mentioned in was taken some time after the Battle of Loos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 19 April , 2007 Share Posted 19 April , 2007 Hi Dave, Not the oldest but a relative of mine, John Armstrong Courtie No. 22104 (born in Liverpool 1853) of the Kings Liverpool Regiment who died on 2 October 1915 aged 62 is my grandfathers uncle and is buried in Swansea Cemetery (CWGC ref). I am still looking into his records. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 19 April , 2007 Share Posted 19 April , 2007 Stilleto, great picture of Mr Webber, I took this shot of his grave a couple of weeks ago. Regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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