Terry Denham Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Last night I was having a pint with a good friend of mine who has the honour of having a VC holder amongst his ancestors - Pte Horace Waller, 10 Bn, KOYLI who was awarded a posthumous VC for actions near Heninel, France on 10.04.17. About two years ago he surprised me with this piece of information and then stunned me by saying that his relatives kept the medal in a box on the sideboard! I advised a more secure location for the medal and suggested getting a replica for display - advice which they followed having been unaware of its monetary value till then. My friend told me that he is attending a special VC service at Westminster Abbey tomorrow followed by a reception at St James Palace - all attendees being VCs or relatives of deceased VCs. He followed this by saying that the family had sold the medal! Although I did not say anything, I had a feeling of sadness and disappointment come over me. I cannot imagine any circumstance which would make me part with such a treasure but, equally, I recognise that not everyone has the same feelings about such matters and that is why I didn't comment. The rest of the pint didn't quite taste the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Thanks for sharing that Terry I hope it went to a good home. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Waller's VC is I believe in a Regimental Museum,strangely some years ago a Commemorative Plaque was owned by a Peterborough collector bearing the name Horace Waller,that he purchased in the local Collectables Shop,& he was;understandably very pleased that it could be that of a VC's however the accompanying envelope & newsclipping tied it in with an Essex Regiment man of the same name!,exit one very upset Collector!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Perhaps the insurance and worry about storing it was too much. At least they got it to the relevent museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essexboy68 Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Terry I can sympathise with your feelings, but can also understand the other side of the argument. Many families do not understand the "value" (I am not talking monetary values here) of heirlooms etc, & so feel no attachment to them. Additionally, once they realise the value, there are considerations such as insurance, what to do with the item, where it should be kept, or indeed who should own it (if it is a large family). Recently, a highly decorated RAF veteran sold his medals to pay for his wife's private surgery as he could not face seeing her in pain whilst on the waiting list, also Bill Sparks, the last of the "cockelshell heroes" sold his DCM group to provide for his retirement, but was lucky enough to have sold it to a collector who allowed him to have & wear the medals at any time he chose. In a perfect world all these decorations, whether for campaign service or gallantry would be held by the families & displayed with pride, but nothing is ever perfect unfortunately. I am glad to hear that your acquaintance's relative's VC is displayed in a museum, let's hope it tells his story & perpetuates his memory. By the way, only 12 VC holders are still alive, the youngest British (born) recipient being Bill Speakman who was decorated for actions in Korea & who now lives in "obscurity" in South Africa. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Don't get me wrong. I don'y decry what the relatives did as I do not know their reasons. For all I know, they may have needed the money for some vital reason. My disappointment centred around the loss of the family link and the medal going to an unconnected owner - but, as you say, others have different priorities and who are we to say they are wrong just because we have different ones. In this case the family do appreciate the 'value' of the medal and the act which generated it. They are very much looking forward to the VC ceremonies tomorrow. The thought also occurs to me now that my friend may have got it wrong and they have simply donated the medal to the care of the museum. (He is not part of the family branch which held the medal). I'll check with him to satisfy my own curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm45 Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Coincidence or what?? I was on Horace Waller VC Parade a road near Dewsbury today. and i was going to ask pals if they knew who he was and when he won his VC no need now Thanks Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 the youngest British (born) recipient being Bill Speakman who was decorated for actions in Korea & who now lives in "obscurity" in South Africa. Mark, I worked witha chap who knew Bill Speakman. Accoring to him, Bill was an absolute "nutter", thus explaining the award of the V.C And my friends explanation for the awarding of the V.C was definately different to the official citation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Terry, I'm with you on this one! The medal never did belong to any one individual family member (with the exception of the brave man that won it). Any person with custody of the medal should have realised that they are only a TEMPORARY custodian and that the medal itself belongs to future family members as well... NOTHING would ever make me "flog" my familys medals... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 Recently, a highly decorated RAF veteran sold his medals to pay for his wife's private surgery as he could not face seeing her in pain whilst on the waiting list, We discussed this one at the time. There were issues relating to the cost of insurance and, more importantly, he said that as they had no close family he wanted to ensure the medal group stayed together (hence the sale while he was still alive). IIRC, his wife's surgery cost about £10,000, leaving them with a very tidy profit to enjoy in their final years. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 25 June , 2006 Share Posted 25 June , 2006 And my friends explanation for the awarding of the V.C was definately different to the official citation. Something to do with an very large inebriate KOSB & a large pile of Beer Bottles,springs to mind,it'd sure put the fear o' God up me let alone the Chinese!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igillian Posted 26 June , 2006 Share Posted 26 June , 2006 We discussed this one at the time. There were issues relating to the cost of insurance and, more importantly, he said that as they had no close family he wanted to ensure the medal group stayed together (hence the sale while he was still alive). IIRC, his wife's surgery cost about £10,000, leaving them with a very tidy profit to enjoy in their final years. John It has always saddened me that highly decorated servicemen should come to a stage where they have to sell medals which were hard earned just to meet the costs of life, its also sad that heros have to pay insurance at all for their medals and makes me angry that people would want to steal what they would probably never be able to earn.Its great that the V.C went to the museum and even though i collect medals i wish all V.Cs were in the hands of regimental museums. Cheers Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 26 June , 2006 Share Posted 26 June , 2006 I once asked about several VCs in a regimental museum and was told that they were not the ones on display as the insurance was too high and they were copies! The real ones were in a bank vault. So if this is correct a a regimental museum holding VCs doesnt mean they are avauilable for us to wonder at. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 26 June , 2006 Share Posted 26 June , 2006 What you say Gareth is true and to add to that for insurance purposes the museums who now own the V.C.'s are limited to the number of days they can take them out for display. I think the Staffs museum have 6 openings per year keeping the premium down. They are held in a bank safe and secure and the V.C.'s at the museum are replacements but still a wonderful sight. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 26 June , 2006 Share Posted 26 June , 2006 I don't think the medal was sold as there is no record of Waller's VC being sold in the last 8 years. Below is a list of the VC's sold since March 2005. CORPORAL WILLIAM COSGROVE - WW1 - DIX NOONAN WEBB - 25 SEP 06 - £000,000 TBA CAPTAIN ALFRED SHOUT - WW1 - BONHAMS & GOODMAN - 24 JUL 06 - £000,000 TBA PRIVATE ALFRED WILKINSON - WW1 - DIX NOONAN WEBB - 29 JUN 06 - £000,000 TBA CORPORAL JOHN SHAUL - BOER WAR - DIX NOONAN WEBB - 05 APR 06 - £140,000 PRIVATE CAPTAIN DIGHTON PROBYN - INDIAN MUTINY - DIX NOONAN WEBB - 23 SEP 05 - £160,000 PRIVATE SERGEANT ALFRED RICHARDS - WW1 - SPINK - 21 JUL 05 - £110,000 PRIVATE PRIVATE FRANCIS MILES - WW1 - MORTON & EDEN - 25 MAY 05 - £72,000 PRIVATE PRIVATE JAMES TOWERS - WW1 - NOBLE PTY ( AUSTRALIA ) - 07 APR 05 - £90,000 PRIVATE L-CORPORAL ROBERT KELLS - INDIAN MUTINY - DIX NOONAN WEBB - 02 MAR 05 - £130,000 PRIVATE Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 26 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2006 Les I checked. It was sold. My friend did not originally know this and hence the confusion. In fact, it was sold about twenty years ago for reasons which I shall not go into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 27 June , 2006 Share Posted 27 June , 2006 Are the ones upstairs at IWM real? I have thought so but don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 28 June , 2006 Share Posted 28 June , 2006 Les I checked. It was sold. My friend did not originally know this and hence the confusion. In fact, it was sold about twenty years ago for reasons which I shall not go into. Terry, Thanks for the confirmation... I thought I didn't recognise it as a "recent sale". My list only goes back as far as 1998 I'll add it to the list of "movements". Cheers Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 28 June , 2006 Share Posted 28 June , 2006 Are the ones upstairs at IWM real? I have thought so but don't know. Paul, Most VCs on display are damn good copies..... (better than those on Ebay, which ain't too hard!) The set I've seen to my man, Dan Burges, are all original except the VC. The family put it into storage with a bank or alike many years ago, but the DSO etc is all original. The Glosters museum now have "ownership". Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mruk Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 I thought I would just revive the thread to see if there was any more information on Horace Waller himself. I, too, noticed the street that was named after him when travelling through the Shaw Cross-Dewsbury area on my way to Huddersfield last week. It was a fine and fitting tribute, if not the area and location of the honour itself. That is, a road leading to an industrial estate. Is there any further info on Horace? Kind Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 Hi Dave, You mean like this? His name also appears on Batley Carr War Memorial and Dewsbury War Memorial. His family headstone is in the upper part of Dewsbury Cemetery (John Ormsby VC, MM is buried in the lower part). I know nothing more on him than is already published, I just have a bit of a thing for driving long distances for a snap of a VC Related thing! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mruk Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 That's the one, Nigel I don't know how you've managed this all the way from Northern Ireland. You've also managed to make the area quite picturesque as well. What a great achievement on all counts. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 I should have said here's one I prepared earlier! I think I've had that in my albums for about 3 years now. There was a lot of cropping going on too to get the rubbish out of the picture. It was a lovely day by the look of it. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mruk Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 It's a nice bit of cropping, Nigel, and you were right to get rid of the tin and corrugated background. As George Formby was want to say: "It's turned out nice..." I'll have a look through the London Gazette later to see if I can find his citation. I wonder how many other streets are named after VC or medal winners? There's been a Blue Plaque raised to Albert Mountain in Garforth [Leeds] only recently. Or at least plans are underway. Apparently, he was the landlord of the 'Miner's Arms' for a short while. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mruk Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 Please see below. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveSe...p;selHonorType= Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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