Cotswold Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Story in todays Daily Telegraph: After 87 years, village honours its war dead By Nick Britten (Filed: 16/05/2005) A village which rejected a war memorial 87 years ago after being refused permission to include a soldier shot for desertion is finally to honour its dead. The tiny community of Fulstow, near Louth, Lincs, is one of the few in Britain to have no monument to the First World War, during which seven villagers lost their lives. Fulstow was offered one in 1918 but was told it could not include Pte Charles Kirman, of the Lincolnshire Regiment's 7th Battalion. Pte Kirman, a veteran of the Somme, was shot at dawn in 1917 after going absent without leave. Villagers insisted that the memorial contain the names of every local man. The issue became so sensitive that the parish church has never even held an Armistice Sunday service. The village hall, built as a memorial to the three men and one woman from Fulstow killed in the Second World War, contains no reference to the earlier conflict. But that is to change following the efforts of Nicola Pike, who became interested in Fulstow's war dead and the lack of a memorial after raising the subject in her local pub. Mrs Pike, a mother-of-four, said: "The parents of the lads who died insisted that all the names, including Pte Kirman's, should be on it, otherwise they didn't want a memorial. "The lads grew up together in the village and all knew each other, and their families thought it was a matter of principle that all the names go on." Pte Kirman, a former soldier recalled when war began, went to France as part of the British Expeditionary Force. After fighting at Mons and the Somme, and twice being wounded, he went AWOL in November 1916. After a court martial he was returned to his unit. Terrified at the prospect of being sent back to the front line, he absconded twice, each time turning himself in after a few days. He told his final court martial: "My nerves are completely broken down. I suffer with pains in the head when I am in the line. Sometimes I don't know what I'm doing." He was convicted of desertion and of going AWOL and was executed, aged 32, on Sept 23, 1917. Mrs Pike, 40, said: "It's about time this was put right. These men and women gave their lives for us." She is leading a campaign to put up a £900 plaque on the village hall listing the dead - including Pte Kirman - and to hold Remembrance Day services in future. Danny Malone, 40, an amateur military historian, hailed the end of the "taboo". "Kirman was no coward. He was a professional soldier. He was wounded twice, and eventually he'd just had enough," he said. Capt John Lee, the regimental secretary of the Royal Lincolnshire Regiment Association, admitted: "I was shocked when I was told Fulstow had no memorial. It's very unusual - I can't think of anywhere else like it. But now there's a lot of enthusiasm. "A memorial is a very important part of our history and our future. Without our past, we haven't got a future. These traditions need to be passed on." A happy ending at (long) last Donna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 A very happy endind indeed, Donna! Good for the villagers, at the time of the original Memorial proposal, for sticking to their guns that all the men's names should be on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 I know that you don't live anywhere near this village, Donna but do you have any special interest in the place? I was wondering - just out of curiosity - which person or body it was that "refused" to give the villagers permission to include all their war dead. And which person or body "offered" the village a memorial in 1919. (or am I taking a journalist's choice of words too literally?) I wonder if this was a case of the local worthies having firm ideas in mind, but ones which were out of touch with the wishes of those who would be required to contribute towards the cost of the memorial. Perhaps some kind of impasse was reached and it was simply never solved. If anyone knows more about this aspect, I'd be interested to hear about it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Great news Donna I am also on the lookout for the small town of Ingatestone next to me who have I have heard at long last sorted a replacement war memorial and location. What i am waiting for is the list of people as one is a deserter.... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Posted 17 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2005 I know that you don't live anywhere near this village, Donna but do you have any special interest in the place? I was wondering - just out of curiosity - which person or body it was that "refused" to give the villagers permission to include all their war dead. And which person or body "offered" the village a memorial in 1919. (or am I taking a journalist's choice of words too literally?) Tom <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Tom, I will try and find out which person or body it was that "refused" to give the villagers permission to include all their war dead. Quite bizarre. Regards, Donna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Posted 17 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Great news Donna I am also on the lookout for the small town of Ingatestone next to me who have I have heard at long last sorted a replacement war memorial and location. What i am waiting for is the list of people as one is a deserter.... John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi John, take a look at the two links below as they give details of the deserter you mention and of the other men on the memorial. http://www.stock.org.uk/history/ww1/fryerning/ http://www.stock.org.uk/history/ww1/fryern...ibald-brown.htm Regards, Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Hi Tom, I will try and find out which person or body it was that "refused" to give the villagers permission to include all their war dead. Quite bizarre. Regards, Donna. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for your interest, Donna. I agree - bizarre is the right word! I believe there were quite a few places where the local squire, landowner or whoever decided to pay for the memorial in order to get some degree of control over what it looked like and how the names would appear. For example - a decision to place the names in rank order means that the squire's officer son would be near the top. A decision to do away with rank and go for alphabetical order could cover up the fact that the squire's son was a corporal while the butcher's son was a Lieutenant. We don't know what happened in the case of Fulstow but the possibility that there was some kind of rebellion makes it very unusual. I wonder if the vicar was involved? Fascinating stuff. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Donna, what a great story and thanks to your efforts a brilliant ending so that ALL these men should be recorded. I am amazed that the "locals" were able to resist a memorial at the time and that the parish church has never held a Remembrance Service. What did happen on the 11th November each year. Did the village ignore the day or did the families just remember their sons in private ? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Donna, what a great story and thanks to your efforts a brilliant ending so that ALL these men should be recorded. I am amazed that the "locals" were able to resist a memorial at the time and that the parish church has never held a Remembrance Service. What did happen on the 11th November each year. Did the village ignore the day or did the families just remember their sons in private ? Patrick <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know you only reported the news Donna but nonetheless thanks for bringing it to us Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bramley Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Hi, Nicola Pike is being interviewd by Yorkshire TV today, not sure when it will be on but for those who can get this channel, might be worth a look. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Hi I am Nicola Pike, who has been under seige since our little village hit the telegraph yesterday. First sorry to Donna for no replying directly, but I thought thius way I might answer the questions brought up on your forum for all. This is what I know Fulstow is very small close knit village and in 1910 -1920 the population was approx 300 I was in the Cross Keys about 13 years ago this coming November (I know the year as I had just moved here) and on the TV was the news showing an armistice service from somewhere in Europe. I was sat near an elderly gentleman who was from the village (I didn’t then & still don’t know his name), and I casually asked just for conversations sake “Where is Fulstow’s War Memorial?” The reply was one of the most moving stories I think I have ever heard, so here goes. “We haven’t got one” he said “How come?” I asked “Most villages have.” “Well, the village hall was done as the memorial for WW2, and they haven’t got one for the 1st War, because of one of the lads being shot.” “Well isn’t that the point of them?” I said “No, one of the lads was shot as a deserter or coward, and when there was talk of a memorial going up, his family was told that his name couldn’t go on it, so this got the wind up some of the mothers and fathers who had lost lads, and me father told me that they said” “Them lads grew up together, they played together, they worked together and they went to war together, if his name ain’t on it then our boy’s name won’t be” “So they never did one” I have managed to trace 6 men from Fulstow who lost their lives in WW1 and of course there are the 3 men and 1 lady from WW2. I have no idea who from the village vitoed the idea of Kirman's name, it wouldn't have been the preacher or vicar, the Hall owner was a Swedish gentleman and had only moved to the village in 1918, the Manor was a farmer who I doubt wouldn't have had a problem. It was probally (as someone said to me) some interfereing woman!!!! Who know? The point is they obviously disgreed somewhere along the lines, so each rememberance Sunday the services are held in the 2 neighbouring parish church's The 2nd war was slightly different, the Swedish man's son donated a patch of land in the village to build a hall as a memorial to the WW2 dead, again no plaque and in fact I have spoken to everyone under 70 who where born here and they had no idea it was built for the war. I just think that any community standing together like this, is wonderful and it's about time the new generations put things right, PC or not So anyone who would like to see our Memorial on November 13th 2005 you will be most welcome. THE MONEY WILL BE RAISED and the PLAQUE WILL BE IN PLACE FOR THAT DAY. Thanks for all your support Nicola Pike Fulstow Lincolnshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Welcome to the Forum, Nicola, and thanks for giving us the full story direct from "one who knows". I for one really appreciate this and wish you well with the fundraising. Is there an address for contributions? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Thanks that's very very kind of you Cheques payable to "Fulstow Village Hall" c/o Nicola Pike Southfield House Fulstow Lincolnshire LN11 0XF Thanks again to all for their support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Posted 17 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Nicola, Many Thanks for the information. I just wonder how many other villages have been in a similar situation in the past. Tom, Interesting info: Regarding where the local squire, landowner or whoever decided to pay for the memorial in order to get some degree of control over what it looked like and how the names would appear. For example - a decision to place the names in rank order means that the squire's officer son would be near the top. Interesting topic. Best Wishes, Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Nicola, there's a cheque in the post and I hope that other Pals feel that your project is worth supporting. As you're in the unusual position of being involved with the setting-up of a war memorial so many years after the event, you might find that this article about UK War Memorials gives you some historical background about how it was done in years gone by. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Donna Thanks for the links... you made my day.. as I wrote them John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 17 May , 2005 Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Did anyone see today's Guardian page 4 - case of Harry Farr - I haven't if there is anyone out there who did and can scan in the article I would be greatful. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 A heartening story of one village's families sticking together. I'm glad you have helped set this in motion Nicola, and thanks for sharing the story with us. Well done Donna also for raising the matter on forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Posted 18 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Hi John, Nice to know your links work hey? your name registered after I had sent them but I did have a chuckle afterwards Regards, Donna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Posted 18 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2005 John, A thread about Harry Farr has been started by Boreenatra in the Soldiers section. Regards, Donna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 I have the feeling that more will follow.. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Tom Thanks you so much for your donation it is very appreciated. Problem, the list you sent me are great but I have 2 or 3 men I know died from the village, who I can't find on CWGC site or anywhere else, can you help ? All I know is their names SHERRIFF I believe it was father & son or maybe even 2 sons after the war the mother was turned out of her house as she couldn't afford the rent and went to live with neighbours in Fulstow until she died. One of the people who took her had a daughter who I spoke too today and she said that she definatly lost husband & sons Can't think of anywhere else to look, I would hate to miss someone from the memorial if you or your list have any ideas I would be most grateful Thanks for everyones support Nicola Pike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 SDGW 5 born in Fulstow 3 residing John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Nicola, my list is the "Soldiers Died in the Great War" CD-ROM. There are two brothers called SHERRIFF - Charles Henry and Edward John. They both enlisted in Grimsby and were born and resident in East Kirkby, Lincs. CWGC lists them as "Son of Thomas and Elizabeth Emily Sherriff, of East Kirkby, Spilsby, Lincs." These are the only two SHERRIFFs who have the same birthplace and residence. I don't know whether these details will ring any bells. Looking at SHERIFF there are three soldiers with Lincolnshire connections, but they all have different birth and residence details. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Your problem is what has happened in Ingatestone, it has been 18 months getting the names right they hope....taken a long time John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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