Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 An Australian soldier I'm researching - No known grave, commemorated at Villers Bretonneux, was an artilleryman, killed by a direct hit on his gun position, near Ginchy, on 23rd January, 1917. Several witnesses mention that he was buried, and I'm trying to find out where the original burial-place might have been, hoping to locate it in today's landscape. Do any of these comments ring any bells among Pals who have studied the area? Does anyone recognise a cemetery - existing or now lost - from these descriptions? "He died without regaining consciousness before reaching the Advanced Dressing Station snd was buried there on the Les Boeufs Road." "There are about 25 graves on a small Military Graveyard a little to the left of the village site." He was buried at Ginchy Cemetery". "Buried at the F. A. Cemetery at Ginchy Wood." "Buried in a cemetery in Ginchy Wood". "Buried in the Cemetery at the Advanced Dressing Station at Ginchy Corner". "Buried in the Cemetery near Factory Road". "Buried to the right of Ginchy at the rear of Les Boeufs". I'll be grateful, as always, for any advice. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Was his grave lost or has been interred elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Not sure if this helps Tom? Factory Avenue, & Corner Bullecourt 51bSW4 U 13 b, d Factory Corner Gueudecourt 57cSW1 N 19 c 95.05 Flers area Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 One or the other, Johnboy and we might never know, but his original grave, according to witnesses, was marked, I believe. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 So I assume that he is on a Memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Mike - I was thinking of the area around Factory Corner. The AIF Burial Ground is not far away and one of the cemeteries concentrated into it post-war was called Factory Corner Cemetery, but this area is a bit of a distance from Ginchy. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 A couple of miles at most Tom? Can you share your man's name with us? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 MIke, I agree that the distance isn't all that great, but it doesn't fit in with the witness statements which seem to suggest that the burial took place quite near to Ginchy itself. The soldier was 1295 Sgt. George Olaf Dunner, 14th Field Artillery Brigade. Johnboy - yes, his name is on the Australian Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Factory Corner Gueudecourt if it helps? Mike Factory Corner Gueudecourt.kmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Thanks, Mike. I know that area quite well, and I'm guessing that if the original burial had taken place there, witnesses would have described the place as being near to Flers, rather than being near to Ginchy. Have you had any luck finding "Ginchy Corner"? (I haven't). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 George Olaf Dunner No luck with Ginchy Corner, but I have seen the Red Cross report, and quite a number of accounts. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Just some general info from CWGC Of the 10,982 names displayed at the unveiling of the Villers-Bretonneux Memorial the burial places of many have since been identified and this continues to this day; 6 of these being among the significant discovery of 250 burials which culminated in the first new Commission cemetery in 50 years being dedicated in July 2010 as Fromelles (Pheasant Wood) Cemetery.All these discoveries are now commemorated by individual headstones in the cemeteries where their remains lie and their details recorded in the relevant cemetery registers; their names will be removed from this memorial in due course. I know nothing about Australian records, but if there is a war diary might there be an attack plan which might give the position of the ADS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 You may have seen this? Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Details from the Guards' Cemetery, Lesboeufs include 2 interesting cemeteries that were concentrated this cemetery GINCHY A.D.S. CEMETERY, on the North side of Ginchy village. This was a Field Ambulance cemetery, used from November, 1916 To March, 1917, and containing the graves of 77 soldiers from the United Kingdom and one from Australia.GINCHY R.F.A. CEMETERY, between Ginchy and Flers, containing the graves of 16 Artillerymen from the United Kingdom and five from Australia who fell in October, 1916-February, 1917. Jon edit; also this from the same cemetery - Other special memorials record the names of five casualties buried in Ginchy A.D.S. Cemetery, whose graves were destroyed by shell fire, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Yes, Mike - been there, done that, as they say! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Jon - that's most interesting. thanks very much for spotting it. One of the witnesses refers to the "F.A. Cemetery". Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Possibly War Diary http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/AWM4/13/41/7/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Tom - sorry if my post # 11 caused confusion because it seemed to appear retrospectively. I'll e-mail you. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Hi Tom Dunner was originally buried at 57C T14 c 0 5 which if you look at the attached extract of the body density map shows a red dot at c 5 0 and the dot is named as Guinchy A.D. The juxtapostion of the 5.0 to 0.5 could be an error of the unknown hand that made the red dot or the inability of the Chaplin to map read. You will notice that RFA Guinchy and Cuinchy ADS are also on the map so that this is a different cemetery. I have no idea how big it was or where it was concentrated to. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Hi It has been pointed out to me that it is A P not A D in the cemetery name. I can also add that his death was reported by the CO of 60th Field Ambulance which usually means that the man was still alive when taken into the care of the FA. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 27 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Apologies to Pals who have been contributing to this thread without any acknowledgement from me. I've been travelling for a large part of the day and have only now managed to connect and read the latest posts. Pete, thanks for Posting the Body Density Map. How did you know about the map reference at which the original burial was made? Is it in the AWM casualty file, among the witness statements? (I don't have access to my copy here, so can't check). Tom T-M - OK - I'll look out for your email. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Tom In his service record in the Australian Archives on Page 36 (I think) it is written on his casualty form. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Tom In case you cannot access it I attach the relevant section from page 36 Peter B 103.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 From Peter's extract, it looks like he may have been buried by the Reverend H(arold) Ewbank, Chaplain to the Forces, 87th Infantry Brigade. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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