178th Tunnelling Coy. RE - 16 casualties 21/12/15

[Chris_B]

The 178th Tunnelling Coy. RE suffered 16 casualties in one day on 21/12/1915, all listed as KIA in SDGW. I'd be grateful if someone with access to their War Diary can check if there is specific information about how they met their deaths.

Chris.

P.S. My version of SDGW is old and there is a 17th casualty whose DOD is incorrectly recorded as 12/12/1915.

[Chris_B]

The full list is:

178th Casualties 21/12/1915

Robert ASHBY

Name: ASHBY, ROBERT Initials: R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102813 Additional information: Son of Mrs. K. Ashby, of Iwerne Minster, Blandford, Dorset; husband of Mrs. M. J. Ashby, of Battram Rd., Ellistown, Leicester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 22. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Chrstopher BARLOW

Name: BARLOW, CHRISTOPHER Initials: C Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 112688 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIA

L

Walter BOWLER

Name: BOWLER, WALTER Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Age: 32 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 139380 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Sarah Bowler. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 26. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Thomas BRETT

Name: BRETT, THOMAS Initials: T Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Age: 45 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 112628 Additional information: Brother of James Brett, of 66, Fourth St., West Stanley, Co. Durham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 9. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Francsis CASSIDY

Name: CASSIDY, FRANCIS Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Age: 46 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102826 Additional information: Husband of Elizabeth Cassidy, of 20, Castlereagh St., New Silksworth, Co. Durham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 9. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Charles William GODFREY

Name: GODFREY Initials: C W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 148460 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 28. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Henry HALTON

Name: HALTON, HENRY Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Age: 23 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 137670 Additional information: Son of Mrs. Annie Mountford, of Wolner Hill, Bringsty, Worcester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Alexander MCDOUGAL

Name: McDOUGAL, ALEXANDER Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102844 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Llewelyn MORRIS

Name: MORRIS, LLEWELYN Initials: L Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: 2nd Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102836 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

John PERRIE

Name: PERRIE Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Date of Death: 21/02/1915 Service No: 136478 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 29. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Percival George WAINE

Name: WAINE, PERCIVAL GEORGE Initials: P G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 137675 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Richard WARREN

Name: WARREN, RICHARD Initials: R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Age: 32 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 139335 Additional information: Son of John and Catherine Warren, of 63, Picton St., Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 25. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

William WARRILOW

Name: WARRILOW Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102105 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 30. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Arthur WESTON

Name: WESTON, ARTHUR Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 112691 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

William WHITE

Name: WHITE Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Age: 24 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 102910 Additional information: Son of William and Mary White, of 32, Charles St., Church Gresley, Burton-on-Trent. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 24. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

 

William WILLIAMSON

Name: WILLIAMSON, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Coy. Age: 31 Date of Death: 21/12/1915 Service No: 139379 Additional information: Son of Mrs. E. Burke, of 2A, Hoveley, Hyde; husband of Annie L. Burke, of 19, Picton St., Salford. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 27. Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

[Chris_B]

The casaulty list suggests that those men who were recovered were buried at the Norfolk cemetry while those who were not are named on the Thiepval memorial. Oddly, two names appear on the Menin Gate. I wonder why?

For those whose final resting place is the Norfolk cemetry, they are laid side by side I.C.23 to I.C.30 and Robert Ashby is flanked by two East Surrey men.

I wonder if this man is connected to the RE men, or it's just a quirk he should be there.

Name: WILKINSON, HARRY OSBORNE

Initials: H O

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: East Surrey Regiment

Unit Text: 8th Bn.

Age: 29

Date of Death: 21/12/1915

Service No: 1329

Additional information: Husband of Rose Annie Wilkinson, of 108, Shepperton Rd., Essex Rd., Islington, London.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 23.

Cemetery: NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

[Chris_B]

The answer appears to be any enemy mine explosion according to notes in the service records of Willima White. Any futher information from 178th Coy. war diary would be appreciated.

[iain mchenry]

Chris,

I have a copy of the RE library, carbon copy of 178's WD. For 21/12/15 it says that the enemy blew two huge mines in the Tambour Duclos, wrecking 30 yards of trench and blowing in several shafts and galleries. Many men buried alive. There was a big rescue effort by RE and infantry, many infantry being gassed in galleries during the rescue work. The diary is handwritten and quite difficult to make out. It also says 16/18 men killed (difficult to make it out wether its 16 or 18). If you PM me with an email address I will send you through the diary extract.

Regards

Iain

[Chris_B]

Chris,

I have a copy of the RE library, carbon copy of 178's WD. For 21/12/15 it says that the enemy blew two huge mines in the Tambour Duclos, wrecking 30 yards of trench and blowing in several shafts and galleries. Many men buried alive. There was a big rescue effort by RE and infantry, many infantry being gassed in galleries during the rescue work. The diary is handwritten and quite difficult to make out. It also says 16/18 men killed (difficult to make it out wether its 16 or 18). If you PM me with an email address I will send you through the diary extract.

Regards

Iain

Iain,

Your offer of the diary extract is much appericated. I'll PM you with my email address.

Chris.

[iain mchenry]

Email with extracts sent Chris.

Regards

Iain

[Chris_B]

Email with extracts sent Chris.

Regards

Iain

Iain,

Someone's up and about early. Extracts received, many thanks. I've added the text to my lastest Ibstock blog entry with acknowledment.

Chris.

[Tunsilk]

This man is in Norfolk cemetery as well.

CLOUTMAN, Lt. Wolfred Reeve , Twice mentioned in Despatches. 178th Coy. Royal Engineers. Killed 21st Aug. 1915 in rescuing a Sgt. whom he carried on his shoulder 45 feet up a ladder from the bottom of a mine. As soon as the Sgt. was lifted off, this officer, overcome with foul gas, fell to the bottom. He was 25 and born at Wealdstone, Harrow, Middlesex. 1. A. 14

Four months earlier and works well underway.It was certainly big long term operation.

The Mennin gate connection is a really a mystery.

David

[Chris_B]

This man is in Norfolk cemetery as well.

CLOUTMAN, Lt. Wolfred Reeve , Twice mentioned in Despatches. 178th Coy. Royal Engineers. Killed 21st Aug. 1915 in rescuing a Sgt. whom he carried on his shoulder 45 feet up a ladder from the bottom of a mine. As soon as the Sgt. was lifted off, this officer, overcome with foul gas, fell to the bottom. He was 25 and born at Wealdstone, Harrow, Middlesex. 1. A. 14

Four months earlier and works well underway.It was certainly big long term operation.

The Mennin gate connection is a really a mystery.

David

David,

Thanks for that. I did read CLOUTMAN's obit elsewhere, 178th had a steady stream of casualties during a period of constant activity. CLOUTMAN was born in my neck of the woods. It's strange how all these connection pan out.

There's no entry in De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour for him.

Chris.

[Tunsilk]

Chris

This explains the East Surrey connection

178th Coy RE were involved in mining operations in the Fricourt area where the 55th Brigade had been operating. Lt Heath, originally an officer with 8th Bn East Surrey Regiment, described how he and none of these men had any experience of mining, but he described the work as

"very interesting, very safe at some times, and very dangerous at others. There was no danger from shells and trench mortars, but the French, from who we had taken over in August, had very mistakenly begun mining without carrying out a vigorous policy; the Germans had replied with much more energy and effect, and by this time had got more than two-thirds of the way across No Man's Land, here about 100yards wide, with their galleries. Consequently, going underground involved some uncertainty as to the return journey.

But the life was far superior to that of the infantry. We had shorter spells in the trenches; two days in the line, and two or three days back at headquarters in Meaulte. This meant that one worked really hard for a definite visible result in the line and had a real rest out of it; whereas, the infantry's duties were those of passive routine in the line and very tedious and continuous training while out of it."

21st August, 1915

Military Cross

Temporary Second Lieutenant Claud Francis Spurrel Jameson, 178th Tunnelling Company, Royal Engineers.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty on 21st August, 1915, near Fricourt, when leading a rescue party in a mine gallery foul with gas and in total darkness. The conditions were most difficult and dangerous. Second Lieutenant Jameson was mainly instrumental in saving the life of one man, and, though partially overcome by gas, he descended again into the gallery and assisted to recover the body of an Officer who had been killed while searching for missing men.

Taken from the London gazette 29/10/15

NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

In Plot 1, Row A is buried Lieutenant Wolfred Cloutman of the 178th Tunneling Company, who died on the 21st of August 1915.

Gerald Gliddon in "Somme 1916 records" that the ashes of his brother, Major Brett Cloutman, the last VC receipient of the First World War in 1918, were placed in the grave alongside Wolfreds after Brett Cloutman died in 1971.

6 September 1915

Hugh Quinn was killed.

20 October 1915

Whilst the Germans carried out anti mining operations in the area, the 178th Company pushed mines forward that would facilitate the detonation of three large charges under the German lines on Boxing Day, 1915. One of the German countermines was exploded on 20th October 1915, and cost the lives of several of the men attached to 178th Coy, including Lance Corporal Edward Whitty.

"News has come to hand of the death at the front on October 20th of Corporal E E Whitty, 7th Battalion The Queen's (attached 178 Co R.E.). A letter received from the lieutenant of his company, Lt Roland Heath, states that he met his death in the explosion of a German mine. "He was just underground preparing to go down the shaft, when the explosion occurred, and was killed instantly and painlessly by the shock and the rush of gas which followed. There is no man in my section of miners whom I could have missed more. He was a first class NCO, always to be trusted and always quick to understand what was wanted, and to carry it out. All the men liked and respected him, and everyone in the R.E. Company has said how sorry he is he has gone".

21 December 1915

the enemy blew two huge mines in the Tambour Duclos

Of the two names appear on the Menin Gate one is Francis Cassidy, the other is also a County Durham man also well in to his 40s?

Altogether a torrid time

David

[Chris_B]

David,

You've dug out some good information. I did look at the 8th East Surreys war diary which is on-line, but did not go back as far as August 1915. By 21/12/1915 their disposition wasn't clear to me. I'll have another look. Very touching story about the Cloutman brothers. As to Cassidy and Brett being on the Menin Gate, I've no idea.

Chris.

[Chris_B]

David,

A small addition to the events of 20 OCT. From the "History of the East Surrey Regiment 1914-1917" vol. Ch XIII page 156.

October 17th found the Battalion again in the trenches, and early in the morning of the 20th October the Germans exploded a mine which cut off in a sap a party who were then gassed. Company Sergt.-Major A Sterry, Sergt. A.Ashton and Ptes. C. Moore and W.P.Thurlow went under machine-gun fire to the mouth of the sap, unblocked the entrance and crawled in several times, rescuing Lieut. Eaton, R.E., and pulling out the entombed men until they themselves were overcome by the gas. They were all awarded subsequently the Distinguished Conduct Medal for their gallant conduct on this occasion. On the 21st October, Lieut. Soames was wounded in the head by a fragment of a trench-mortar bomb. The casualties during Ocrober were 5 other ranks killed and 1 officer and 6 other ranks wounded.

The history has nothing to say about the events of 21/12/1915 and the loss of life suffered by 178th Coy. RE. It does make an oblique reference to mines exploded under the Germans at Tambour-du-Clos. saying

A similar bombardment took place on the 30th, the Germans being anxious to prevent our troops occupying the craters formed by mines exploded by us in front of the Tambour. The craters were however, entrenched and held.

From the infantry's point of view it would seem the outcome of all of the 178th Coy. costly work was rather limited. It still leaves me wondering about Pte. Wilkinson.

[Chris_B]

DCM Citations:

S/55 Company Serjeant-Major A. Sterry,

8th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.

For conspicuous bravery and devotion to

duty on the 20th October, 1915, m the Tam-

bour du Clos, close to Fricourt. The Ger-

mans having exploded a mine, Company

Serjeant-Major Sterry climbed over the

debris in full view of the enemy, under heavy

machine-gun fire, and got to the head of one

of our mine saps which was blocked and

from which smoke was issuing

H© un-

blocked the entrance, and with the greatest

gallantry crawled into the sap three times

and brought out three men. He was finally

overcome by gas and carried away.

L/5940 Serjeant A. Ashton, 8th, Battalion,

East Surrey Regiment.

For conspicuous bravery and devotion to

duty on the 20t3i October, 1915, in the

Tambour du C'los, close to Fricourt. The

Germans having exploded a mine, Serjeant

Ashton followed Company Serjeant-Major

Sterry over the parapet in full view of the

enemy under a heavy machine-gun fire, and

assisted in opening the entrance to a mine

sap, which was blocked, and from which

smoke was issuing. He then, with the

greatest gallantry, crawled into the sap

twice, bringing out two men. Finally he

was himself overcome by the gas.

4901 Private C. Moore, 8th Battalion, East

Surrey Regiment (attached 178th Tunnelling

Company, Royal Engineers, 58th Brigade,

Mining Section).

For conspicuous bravery and devotion to

duty on the 20th October, 1915. After the

Germans had exploded a mine, blowing in

our parapet, damaging our galleries, and

filling them with poisonous gases, Private

Moore, with gieat gallantry, entered one

gallery without any apparatus and assisted

to bring three wounded men to the surface

He then helped to clear .the trench to the

mouth of another shaft under machine-gun

and artillery fire, and assisted in rescuing

eight men from this gallery. He worked

until overcome by gas fumes and was carried

unconscious to the rear. By his bravery,

energy and disregard of personal danger he

greatly contributed to the rescue operations.

G/5102 Private W. P. Thurlow, 8th Batta

lion, East Surrey Regiment.

For conspicuous bravery and devotion to

duty on the 20th October, 1915, in the Tam-

bour du Clos, close to Fricourt. The Ger-

mans having exploded a mine, Private

Thurlow, accompanied by two Non-Oommis-

sioned Officers, under a heavy machine-gun

fire, went to the entrance of a mine sap

which had been blocked and from which

smoke was issuing. He worked a pump at

the head of the mine sap whilst the Non-

Commissioned Officers were rescuing the men

in it. Later an Officer went down the

shaft and became unconscious. Private

Thurlow, with the greatest gallantry, at once

went into the gallery and pulled him out.

He then returned to the pump, which he

continued to work until finally he collapsed

from the effects of the gas fumes.

Thre's a clue in Pte. Moore's citation. Members of 8th Bn. East Surrey were attached to 178th Tunn.Coy. Maybe Pte. H.O.Wilkison was another. Sadly his service papers do not appear to have survived.

All four survived the War. But CSM Alfred Sterry spends time in the Labour Corps before being discharged unfit in 14/9/1916 awarded a SWB. Sjt.Arthur Ashton continues to serve, is promoted Col.Sjt. until 12/6/18 when he is also discharged and awarded a SWB. Pte. William Percy Thurlow also spends time in the Labour Corps before he is placed in Class "Z" at the end of the war, effective 2/3/1919. Pte. Charles Moore MIC shows he served in four different units:

Medal card of Moore, Charles

Corps Regiment No Rank

East Surrey Regiment G/4901 Private

Royal Engineers WR/316460 Private

Bedfordshire Regiment 45659 Private

Royal Engineers 318147 Private

There's no indication of when his war came to an end.

[Tunsilk]

Chris

This tunneling company were worked really hard. The works cost so many men's lives and the gallantry showed by the remainder makes you feel quite overawed. The war wasn't all about mud trenches and bullets. On top of this some of these me were older and not all considered fit enough for the front line.

This has been a very interesting posting.

thanks and regards

David

[Chris_B]

Chris

This tunneling company were worked really hard. The works cost so many men's lives and the gallantry showed by the remainder makes you feel quite overawed. The war wasn't all about mud trenches and bullets. On top of this some of these me were older and not all considered fit enough for the front line.

This has been a very interesting posting.

thanks and regards

David

David,

I can only echo your sentiments. It leaves you feeling rather humble.

Chris.

[Private W. P. Thurlow]

Hi All,

Please can you help me? My Grandfather was Private W .P.Thurlow who you mention in this Forum. I have bee trying to do some research on what happened, I have his medal, the local and national newspaper cuttings even a letter from his school who had an "afternoon off" in his honour! I am going to Fricourt this April to see what it is like and to get some photos for my Mother so she can see were her Dad was. My question is "Are there any maps available whic show the location of the mine, and who was the officer who he pulled out. According to Mum, he spent some time trying to find Grandpa as he didn't know who he was. Can I post the information here of what I have?

Thanking you all in anticipation

Kind regards

Ian Richardson

[mcrosby18]

Francis Cassidy was my great grandfather. He was a 56 year old coal miner from county Durham who was recruited as they wanted people with skills in tunnel building. He was called up in July and in France within a couple of weeks, which suggests the need was so urgent, they didn't even get basic training! Yet they were in combat underground within weeks.

He left a widow, a mistress, 11 legitimate children and 2 illegitimate. A larger than life character and local councillor. His 100+ descendants include 2 of the first female bank managers in the UK, an editor of the New York Times, a director of Marconi, a GLC councillor and the singer Sam Smith.

 

 

[Tunsilk]

[mcrosby18]

Thank you to Tunsilk for posting this. I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner but I don't check this forum very often. 

My 82 year old mum had never seen a picture of her grandfather before (as he died when her mother was just 5 years old) and is absolutely thrilled!  We're going to look through the old family photos to see if he's among the people we could never identify. We never knew he was a councillor either, so. We'll be researching that as well. Thank you again.

[Guest]

On 30/10/2010 at 17:32, Chris_B said:

The answer appears to be any enemy mine explosion according to notes in the service records of Willima White. Any futher information from 178th Coy. war diary would be appreciated.

Hello. I wonder if you have those service records or might be able to tell me how to access them? 

 

The William White in the 178th Tunnelling Coy is my great great uncle and I know very little about what he did during the war beyond the Wikipedia entry for the company and the information I have from the Church Gresley War Memorial where he is remembered. I am trying to find out whatever I can about him, particularly today 100 years after the armistice. My dream is to find a photograph of him but suspect it is unlikely to happen.

 

Any pointers or information would be gratefully received. I am okay with social history research but have no experience with the military.

[Chris_B]

Rhonda, 

 

It's many years since I had reason to look at this,  I cannot find  your Great Great Uncle's service papers on Ancestry at the moment, but they do exist.   I made brief notes in 2010:

 

102910 Sapper William WHITE joins 7 July 1915 London, gives his Burton address as per CWGC entry. A Miner aged 23, he enlists on “tunnellers mate” pay of 2/2. Depot M to France 19/7/1915. 19.11.15 Remustered as Tunneller at 6/- , two days before death. Note KIA 21/12/1915 due to enemy mine explosion. Mother writes to acknowledge receipt of a broken watch.

 

His entry in the "Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects" ,viewable at Ancestry, shows and he had nominated his mother Mary and a "Miss Florence Jane Yates" as joint legatees.  Perhaps Miss Yates was the woman he hoped to return to and even marry. 

 

For a £10 fee you can access William White's "Soldier's Will" here: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=white&SurnameGrants=white&YearOfDeath=1915&YearOfDeathGrants=1915&RegimentNumber=102910 &AdvancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=False&IsCalendarSearch=False#soldiers

 

These documents are rare survivals, it may not say much but could hold a vital clue to the identity of  " "Miss Florence Jane Yates".

 

The 178th Tunnelling Company RE War Diary is not available at Ancestry, but can be downloaded for here for £3.50: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c82e689b7ebf48808e4a68f3ccfa7def

Edited 12 November , 2018 by Chris_B

[Guest]

Hello all, my first post.  My best friends great grandad was Llewelyn Morris killed 21-12-1915.  How do we find his army service records please or any other information about him 

 

 

[George Rayner]

As a starter-although possibly a new thread on his own needed...

2nd CorporalMORRIS, LLEWELYN

Service Number 102836

Died 21/12/1915

178th Tunnelling Coy.
Royal Engineers

This is on the CWGC website-Commonwealth War Graves Commission which has free access 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1545924/morris,-llewelyn/

 

George

[MaxD]

His service record itself appear to have been among the 60% or so of Great War records that were lost to bombing in WW2.

 

Findmypast has links https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sourcecategory=armed+forces+%26+conflict&soldiernumber=102836&keywordsplace_proximity=5&sourcecountry=great+britain

to his 1914/1915 Star medal card which is at the National Archives at https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4148740 and to his British War and Victory Medals card at https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4148832  There are also links to the CWGC site which has been quoted by George and to "Soldiers died in the Great War" which has nothing more.

His medal card gives the information that he went overseas on 6 July 1915

 

Ancestry has the medal roll entries which add nothing to the above.  There is also his entry in the Register of Soldiers' Effects

 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60506/42511_6117462_0025-00262?pid=31562&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DMvA5402%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D60506%26cp%3D0%26_F8007A65%3D102836%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D31562%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=MvA5402&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

The war diary for the company covering the period is downloadable for £3.50 at the National Archives:

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c82e689b7ebf48808e4a68f3ccfa7def  Already quoted by Chris above

 

There may be a pension record  and perhaps his will which others may point you to.

 

Max

 

Edited 19 June , 2019 by MaxD
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