JohnYork Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 I am researching my grandmothers first husband H.G. Doe 3/3387 who died on the 13 Nov 1916 and is buried in Serre road no.2 cemetery. He was serving in the 13th (West Ham) Essex regiment, does anyone have any info on this units involvement in the Somme offensive or could I have recommendations for the best place to look? I have had some small contact with the Essex regiment museum and plan a visit there soon but would appreciate any help that may speed my research. John York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 John - someone else will jump in and correct me - but try a book called 'The Somme -day by day' - I think it was by Chris McCarthy? I found it EXTREMELY useful. Gives loads of info/pics right down to weather conditions on the day. Also try the Long Long Trail which you will find above your 'logged in as' at top of forum. Cheers Des the Lilywhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnYork Posted 19 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2004 I've had it on order thro Amazon but it must be well up stream as I've been waiting for it since before Christmas!!! (They now give me a delivery estimate of 23 June). So I'm trying to source it from elsewhere thanks for the suggestion though John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 John - reference library check. It depends where you are of course but I'll bet you would get a copy in a ref. library near you ... Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 John, My wife's Great Uncle George Leopold Brown was in the 13th Essex at the Somme. I have researched his history as much as possible at the PRO and through local sources and family contacts. I have copies of the relevant passages from Burrows History of the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 15th Essex together with many copies of the Battalion diaries covering his time in France. Briefly, he was born in Newcommen Road Leytonstone and enlisted in 1915, one of five of six brothers who served in the Great War. The 13th Essex sailed to France as part of the 100th Brigade, 33rd Div transferring to the 6th Brigade, 2nd Div on the 22nd December 1915. The Battalion worked it's way down through France and on the night of 1st July 1916 was involved in a large scale raid at Souchez (near Vimy). Many soldiers were killed and wounded and George, along with five other NCO's and men, was awarded the MM. The 13th Bn arrived in the Somme area towards the end of July and was involved in the fighting at Delville Wood and Carnoy suffering terrible losses. Following this, George was involved in a fierce attack against Waterlot Farm (the suger beet refinery area) at Guillemont on the night of 8th August, during this operation George was wounded but later recovered to be posted to the 9th Essex. Unfourtunately, he would later be killed in another attack - this time during the fighting in and around Arras in July 1917, specifically at an enemy position called the Mound near Infantry Hill, just east of Monchy le Prux near Arras. I have visited the exact spot and the land is exactly as it was then, I was there again not 6 weeks ago. The diaries and accounts of the three major battles of his time in the Great War make incredible reading, especially the hopeless nature of the attack in which he lost his life. Anyway, if you need some specific details of the 13th during the time he served I have lots of paperwork to call upon! Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 John, It's late now but just to add - I got my photocopy of Burrows from the IWM, if you really want to know as much as possible about the 13th then a copy of this book is absolutely essential. The other main source of course is the Battalion diaries at the PRO. The reference for the 13th Essex is WO95/1358 Burrows gives a long and very detailed account of the formation of the 13th ('The Hammers') and of course details their every move during the War up to their disbandment in January 1918. I have coverage from their formation up to the fighting at Beaumont Hamel in October/November 1916. As George was no longer a member of the Bn after August 1916 I did not have sections beyond 1916 photocopied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnYork Posted 20 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Thanks Giles I'll try to track down a copy of burrow's book in my local library (It seems to be off-line at the moment.) I would appreciate you sending me any information you have via email if at all possible. In the mean time I would explain a bit about why I'm researching him. I don't expect I need to justify researching any soldier of the great war in this forum but there you go. My general interest in military history barely touch ww1 until I went with a friend to the Somme and Ypres on and organised coach tour. Whilst on the tour I was aware that some relatives of mine had died in the conflict but had no idea where or even what their names where. At the end of our day on the somme I stood in Serre road no2 near the cross of sacrifice wondering. A few months as the internet began to grow I made enquiries about the members of my family that had fought and died. Checking on the CGWC website I found the location of Harold's grave and realised I'd been there. A year or so later and I took another friend for a trip and visiting Serre rd no2 I found that His headstone was right where I had stood on my previous visit. My friend then became equally hooked and he decided to start photgraphing war memorials in the UK (which also allowed us a good excuse for a blast round the local countryside on our bikes!). Then the second coincidence, I found Harolds name carved on a memorial in a churchyard where I went to nursery school (quite) a few years earlier. I've felt kind of drawn to finding more out since then but information about the the Essex seems to be rather scarce in mainstream books. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 John, It is likely your man died in a major attack by the 13th Essex during the Ancre offensive on the night in question (13/11/16). The attack was against the Quadrilateral, the Bn billeting in Mailly Maillet from November 7th to the 11th. Typically, the sections I copied from Burrows stopped on page 399 - just as the barrage for the attack is described - would you believe it! Anyway, I have done some quick digi pics of the sections I hope will interest you. The following describes the formation of the 13th: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Continued: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Continued, the Bn sailed to France 17th Nov 1915: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 And now the lead up to the attack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Nearly there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 And this is the last bit I have, it's terribly tantalising and I would very much like to learn what happened next if you find out: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorrie Posted 10 December , 2004 Share Posted 10 December , 2004 Having used the search engine Ihave just come across youir topic postings re the 13th essex during 13th Nov 1916. I am researching a soldier by the name of Barrington Mantle an unusual surname. He was a private and like HG Doe is buries at Serre cemetery. It was inetersting to see that they entarined for Clipstone Camp, Notts the site of is only a few miles from where I live. Have you anydetails reagarding Barrington Mantle? Thanks in anticipation. Dorrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandsonMichael Posted 11 December , 2004 Share Posted 11 December , 2004 Hi Dorrie, I noticed this posting and I'm afraid I can't help you but perhaps the gentlemen John and Giles will be activated after the info I'm about to add to this thrread? Gents, here is the remaining info you both wanted, probably I'm running behind developments after the 20th May 2004, but who knows? Burrows pages 399-403 coming up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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PhilB Posted 11 December , 2004 Share Posted 11 December , 2004 On reading that they were called "The Hammers" I wondered what the Germans would make of the strains of "I`m for ever blowing bubbles" floating over No Man`s Land! Any of you chavs know if the song was in vogue then? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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