leefer Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 A relative of mine John Ferris died while serving for the Wiltshires and is buried Egypt. Living in Bitterne and enlisting at Southampton ime guessing he would have joined the Hampshires,obviously with widespread casualties it wasnt uncommon for soldiers to join and fight with other regiments but i am wondering if it was an oficial thing a soldier would do,if he died with the Wilts does this mean he could have been transfered if not could he have originally joined the Wilts at Southampton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Hi, You don't mention a service number but as this is the only J Ferris on CWGC I assume this is your man - Name: FERRIS Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Wiltshire Regiment Unit Text: 1st/4th Bn. Date of Death: 19/09/1918 Service No: 203995 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 56. Cemetery: RAMLEH WAR CEMETERY If so he is buried in Israel not Egypt. Cemetery: RAMLEH WAR CEMETERY Country: Israel His MIC confirms service with both regiments you mention. Do you have the MIC? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 leefer He might not have had the choice if he signed on after 1915,when he would have been likely conscripted and sent where he was needed. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 24 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Thanks both...course its Israel...was looking at another Ramleh in Egypt!...i dont have his MIC archangel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Just heading home from work now but will post the MIC later. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Here is the medal card - as you can see both Hants and Wilts Regiments Alan Edit - Image deleted in line with current forum policy Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 leefer Both numbers are from the 1917 re-numbering of the TF. 240389 was allocated to the 5th Battalion Hampshire Regiment,and, 203995 to the 4th Battalion Wiltshire Regiment. I am hazarding a guess that he was initially Wiltshire TF with a number of 1767,if I interpret the number at the top of the card and the issue of the Territorial Forces War Medal. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 The History of the Hampshire Territorial Force Association and War Record of Units 1914-19 comments (page 150) that in July 1918, the 2/5th hampshires were disbanded in Egypt, and 5 officers and 300 men went to the 1/4th Wilts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 24 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Thanks all of you so much..if ime right he was only 19...could anyone tell me how you got a TF war medal,was a soldier nominated or did every soldier serving get one...THANKS again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 24 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2009 The History of the Hampshire Territorial Force Association and War Record of Units 1914-19 comments (page 150) that in July 1918, the 2/5th hampshires were disbanded in Egypt, and 5 officers and 300 men went to the 1/4th Wilts. Cheers Steven...amazed how you all do it,in fact John was 23 when he died not 19. The sad thing being he got through most of the war with his own unit only to perish soon after joining the Wilts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 leefer I understand that it was like a campaign medal for the TF. Initially they were only for Home Service but could volunteer to sign a form to say they would be willing to serve overseas. If they did this they got a badge to wear on/above/below the right breast pocket,and were eventually issued with the TFWM. I am not absolutely sure that only those who served overseas got it. I am sure someone here will advise. Sotonmate Edit: I just see from the Long Long Trail that they did have to serve overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 TF War medal is different kettle of fish. It is a medal (not the Imperial Service badge). It was awarded to (I hope I get this right) any Territorial, serving at the outbreak of war, who had volunteered to serve overseas before some date in August or September, and who did not receive a 14 or 14/15 Star. Mostly, by definition, these were men of the Wessex Division or 2nd Wessex Division (later 43rd and 45th), or Home Counties Division (44th), all of whom went to India in 1914 to relieve Regulars, but who did not then go to a theatre of war until after 1915. My wife's maternal grandfather (4th Hants) received one. It's a lovely medal, with a green ribbon with a yellow strip either side, and I believe only about 50,000 were awarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 25 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Thanks Steve...as always much thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 25 January , 2009 Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Hi Leefer, I did see this when it was posted, but as I coundn't find any extra information to add. Having a look at SDGW it says that he was previously 1767 in the Hampshire regiment, so he must have joined them, got renumbered and then got transferred to the Wilts and as far as I'm aware the 1/4th Wiltshire was a TF battalion, maybe the 2/5th Hamps is as well Taken from The long long Trail: The Territorial Force War Medal, 1914-1920 This is the least commonly issued medal. It was insituted in 1920 and only applicable to men or women who had served in a unit of the Territorial Force. To qualify, the soldier must have completed four years or more service prior to 4 August 1914, and if not still serving must have rejoined by 30 September 1914; they must have agreed to serve overseas by the same date; they must have served overseas at some point up to and including 11 November 1918; and they must not have otherwise qualified for a 1914 or 1914-15 Star. Only 33,944 of this medal was issued, to members of the TF and the TF Nursing Service. So he must have enlisted in 1910 at the latest t have qualified for the TFWM Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 25 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Thanks Grantowi...your help is apreciated,as i said before just sad that he managed to get through four years with the Hants...but only two months with the Wilts...just a general question looking at his War Grave details noticed many said age unknown like his does although the census tells me his age so its no problem..just seems a little sad that the officials at the time didnt get all the ages? Thanks again...Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 25 January , 2009 Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Leefer, Are you certain of his enlistment date ? According to TLLT to qualifiy for the TFWM "must have completed four years or more service prior to 4 August 1914, and if not still serving must have rejoined by 30 September 1914" Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 January , 2009 Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Here's a thing. I know little of medals, so I was deliberately vague. However, looking in the Observer's Book of British Awards and medals, it says: "...awarded to all members of the Teritorial Force...who were members of the service on 4th August 1914, and to those who had completed four years service before that date. In addition, they must have (a) undertakenon or before 30th September 1914 to serve outside the United Kingdom...." I read that to mean your man needn't have had too much service, providing he was a member on the outbreak of war. The four years' service would, I assume, apply had he left prior to the war, but rejoined in time to volunteer before 30th September to go overseas. if you see what I mean. And, yes, the 2/5th Hants were a TF Battalion, recruiting from Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 25 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2009 I dont know his enlistment date Grant..i looked at the census for 1901 and ime certain he was aged five then...The book Steve Broomfield mentioned seemed to indicate he joined the Wilts in Aug 1918....he enlisted at Southampton and went onto serve in the Hants...you know all this i know!!! Its suggesting to me that maybe he was in the army before the war started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 25 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2009 Even more so now Steven!..i am talking to the secretary of the Royal British Legion of Bitterne tomorow who may shed more light on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 25 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2009 http://www.cwgc.org/search/SearchResults.a...6&send.y=10 Ive been trying to get some info on a Jack Ferris....is there anyway i could find out this soldiers name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 January , 2009 Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Might be worth a PM to Forum Member coldstreamer. He may well not see this thread, and (as you might guess from the name), he knows about the Coldstream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 26 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Cheers...again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 26 January , 2009 Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Leefer, If, as Mr Broomfield, points out, the 2/5 hants were a TF Battalion, then there is a good chance that he was already enlisted when war was declared. He was in the Hampshires first, as 1767, then renumbered as 240389, and then he got transferred to the Wilts as 203995 - which were all TF Battalions. You'll need to get the qualifing period for the TFWM sorted out, as Stevens book and TLLT seem to be offering diffrent times Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 January , 2009 Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Please...less of the Mr. "Sir" will do Seriously, though, it might be worth starting a thread in the medals bit of the Forum, asking the question. There are lots of medal experts out there - they probably just haven't looked at this thread. There's also a Hampshire regiment chap around: works for the regimental museum. I have his e-mail, so I'll drop him a line and direct him here. You never know. Bit of effort, chaps, and we can have this in Classic Threads yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 26 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Thanks chaps...determined to find abit more out,want to find out about his life,spoke to the Legion and they are going to do abit of local research..will keep you posted if i get any new info...Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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