Temporary ranks

[Liz in Eastbourne]

If an officer was promoted from 2nd Lt to temp Lt and then temp Capt, could /would he be returned to 2nd Lt at the end of the war? I thought when I first saw temporary ranks that men would then be confirmed in the rank before progressing to the next one but I have now seen a lot (relative to my short experience of these things) who went from one temporary rank to another. It often seems to be while they are in a particular role, say temp Capt. while commanding a Company. Was this a phenomenon peculiar to the war, when the loss of men made it impossible to find enough officers with the usual amount of experience in the rank they held before?

I have seen 'Temporary Second Lieut X relinquishes the temporary rank of Capt' even during the war which seems a bit of a fall. Does it imply any disgrace? Or is it all due to the needs of the time?

I haven't yet seen or read enough to understand the system, and would appreciate help from those who have.

Liz

[dfaulder]

Liz,

In the main a temporary rank would be given (and Gazetted) when an officer was required to take on a role justifying a higher rank, but for some reason the army did not want to make the promotion substantive. Whilst the cynic in me suspects that it may have been a cost control measure, I suspect there were also issue like not substantively promoting until certain criteria had been met, and during the war this was not always possible. Thus you could go temporarily two (or more) ranks up above your substantive rank.

(Do not confuse with Acting Rank, with is very temporary, or Brevet Rank - which is a whole lot different and I still don't understand (mixture of local and honorary rank as far as I can make out))

I am confused as to how someone was a temporary 2nd Lieutenant (i.e. temporary on the bottom officer rung - you either had a commission or you did not). Some men would get temporary commisions (for the duration of the war), but as far as I understand the rank was substantive.

Loss of temporary rank rarely involved disgrace - although this was a concern (to my father) about my Grandfather (his story is on my website - see the final section of the large file)

HTH

David

[Steven Broomfield]

I think (emphasise that word) that an hostilities-only officer was Temporary; he wasn't a Regular officer, so had only a temporary rank. I think (again, emphasis that word) that a wartime officer could be confirmed in his rank after a certain length of time (possibly), so would become a Second Lieutenant, temporary Lieutenant, Acting Lieutenant Colonel.

I think the words "Acting" and "Temporary" mustn't be confused.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Thank you very much, David and Steven, for engaging with this question, but I am interested that it seems not to be cut and dried .

I didn't think i had been tempted to confuse Acting and Temporary, as you both stress one shouldn't, because I haven't seen 'Acting' in the London Gazette with ref to my current little corner, 21/KRRC. On the other hand I've just looked down now at my small pile of printouts and seen a whole list of Royal Horse and Field Artillery Actg. Capts (LG 16 April 1918). But I see why you've said it - because I talked about promotion in a particular role. I did this because I had just seen lots like these from the LG Supplement 31 Oct 1916:

'The undermentioned to be temp. Capts while comdg a Co: (don't know which regiment the first one is, it just happens to be top of the page)

Temp 2nd Lt CH Daggett

Temp Lt R W Wright.

R.War. R.

Temp.Lt. A.H Handford relinquishes the temp rank of Capt on ceasing to comd a Co. 22 Aug 1916

R Fus.

The undermentioned to be temp Capts whilst comdg a Co.:-

Temp Lt NA Lewis 27 Aug 1916

Temp 2nd Lt R H Gregg, MC 31 Aug 1916'

The idea that officers who were commissioned for the duration were 'temporary' sounds appealing because it accounts for all these men whose ranks appear to be always temporary. it would account for a lot of my Yeoman Rifles officers' records, I think. But there are also ranks relinquished when the role associated with it ceases and those are more like my idea of 'acting'.

So what's the difference between Acting and Temporary? Since you've stressed the importance of this distinction I'd better get it straight!

Liz

[kenf48]

From Hansard February 1917:-

Major HUNT Does "temporary rank" mean "temporary promotion"?

§

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN I am afraid I shall have to ask my hon. and gallant Friend to put that on the Paper or communicate with me in private. These matters are rather technical.

There were various Army Orders governing promotion but a brief outline:-

The pre war Regular Army relied on a system of seniority/examination for promotion. The system was rigidly controlled with strict orders of precedence, and up to the rank of lieutenant-colonel based on Regimental appointments. So a 2nd Lieut. could map out his career,beyond that rank promotions were in the Army. Haig, for example was very impatient but it took the Boer War to bring him to notice, and from then his advancement became more rapid.

The Army had to devise a system to accommodate the increase in numbers and created ‘temporary’ commissions. Although these officers received their commission, i.e. a ‘certificate‘ on vellum in the same way as a Regular officer, and received pay and allowances (and if killed his widow a pension) equivalent to a Regular officer the commission was stamped ‘TEMPORARY’. This class of officer became known as ‘temporary gentlemen’, and comprised the majority of officers in the field as the war progressed. Neither they, nor the Army imagined they would remain in the service after the war. Although some of these temporary officers were offered permanent regular commissions if they accepted they reverted to 2nd Lieut.

In the field an officer could be gazetted to a temporary rank if he had held the ‘acting’ rank for thirty days, so a lieutenant holding a temporary commission could be promoted to temporary major, replacing a temporary major who was missing or wounded and therefore remained on the strength until discharged or returned to duty. The rank of Captain and Major were considered interchangeable, so given the casualties it was quite possible for officers to take up appointments way beyond their current rank.

As ever Holmes in ‘Tommy‘ is worth a read and devotes over ten pages to the system. One example he cites is the 3/3 Queens where the commanding officer, Lt Col Hooke was killed in action on 16 August 1916. His second in command, Major Oswald immediately took command and 30 days later promoted to temporary lieutenant-colonel gazetted on 23 September. On the 5th October 1917 Lt-Col (Temporary) Oswald was wounded and immediately reverted to Major, receiving, as Holmes notes, ‘ a DSO by way of consolation’.

A commissioned officer (non-commissioned officer were subject to different regulations) could be granted acting rank, for duty in a specific appointment. He would relinquish his acting rank on vacating that appointment, a generalisation but more common away from the infantry.

Incidentally the army jealously guarded promotion above brigade level and officers holding temporary commissions were rarely appointed to that level save as 'acting' temporarily.

Ken

[Ron Clifton]

A few points to add to the discussion:

The QMG in France in 1918, Travers Clarke, was a Tewmporary Lieutenant-General, but a substantive Major.

Aftewr WW1, many temporary offcers on retiring or relinquishing their commissions were granted the honorary rank which was the highest they had reached during the war.

During WW2, recognising the anomalies which had arisen in WW1, the category of "War substantive" rank was created. Under these arrangements, an officer promoted to any temporary rank was given the rank one grade lower as war substantive, below which he would not revert for the duration of the war.

Ron

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Ken

Thank you for that very clear reply. I like the Hansard bit very much, it made me feel much less ignorant for bringing this subject up!

I had suddenly thought of 'Tommy' myself late last night (I've been unfairly prejudiced against it, absurdly, because of the error re Lord Feversham's dog - a minor obsession related to my 21/KRRC obsession), unearthed it and as you say it contains very useful material on this. I also for the first time got a rough idea of what 'brevet' means - I say 'rough' because the idea of having promotion within the army but not within your regiment still seems odd to me. I think I just need to check it all against more individual examples as they come up.

Still, that feels like a major advance. Thanks again.

Liz

[Liz in Eastbourne]

...

Aftewr WW1, many temporary offcers on retiring or relinquishing their commissions were granted the honorary rank which was the highest they had reached during the war.

...

I noticed that yesterday looking at Capt GD Sheardown, again re 21/KRRC - he was given the honorary rank of Captain when he relinquished his commission.

Thanks, Ron.

Liz

[Muerrisch]

Brevet, Honorary, Local or Temporary, rank: a collection of information from reputable British sources.

For convenience, Brevet henceforth abbreviated Bt. Local as L, Temporary as T. and Honorary as Hon. My editorial comments in [brackets] thus.

Queen’s Regulations 1873. Bt. field officers [major, lt. col., col.]doing duty with their regiments as captains to wear uniform according to their rank in the army; to do duty as field officers in garrison etc. [in context, army rank seems to be that awarded by the Bt.]

Rank, Badges etc by Otley Lane Perry 1888. Bt. rank is permanent army rank as regards precedence but with pay of rank next below that indicated by the Bt. ….. [if I read this right, a captain with two brevet promotions would be paid as a major but ….]

Hon. Rank gives same advantages as enjoyed by Corresponding rank [ie equivalent Naval ranks] and Perry lists 17 appointments carrying Hon. Rank of Major, for example Chaplains 3rd class, Staff Paymaster

Queen’s regulations 1885. Agrees QR1873 and adds that captains holding Bt. rank as field officers are to perform regimental duties according to their regimental rank [in context, as captains]

Manual Military Law 1899. ……officers …… all alike are officers of HM land forces and have army rank as such, which may or may not be the same as their regimental rank ………….. [a corollary of this is that a Major, Bt. Lt Col doing duty on a Court Martial will outrank all Majors and below and therefore preside]

Royal Pay Warrant 1914. Substantive rank shall include all rank except army, brevet, honorary and local or temporary rank. [three points here 1. any comfortable thought that Bt. and army rank were the same is dispelled, 2. a following paragraph seems to suggest that regimental rank is the same as substantive rank, and 3. a reasonable working definition of substantive rank is ‘one that cannot be lost except by sentence of Court Martial’].

QM commissions were exactly that, and not combatant. QMs were not entitled to command mixed bodies of troops in action. They were eligible for Hon. Ranks as Lieutenant, with subsequent Hon. rises even to Lt Col. depending on length of service and merit. One well known example is QM & Hon Major Harry Yates, MC, 2RWF.

Bt. promotion may be given to captains[ after at least 6 years service], majors and lt cols for distinguished service [in the field or otherwise] [note that these are the only British brevet awards, unlike some other nations]

Kings Regulations 1914. adds to previous QR by noting that specially meritorious service may be recognised by accelerated promotion “usually by Bt.” Regular officers to take precedence over SR, who in turn take precedence over TF, of same nominal rank.

Bt. rank will not exempt an officer from taking the usual examinations for promotion [these exams differed according to arm of service]

Military Origins by Gordon 1971 is probably too “out of period” to be much use, he says little to disagree with the above on Bt. Rank and adds that Acting rank became Temporary rank after three months.

To summarise: Local and Temporary do appear to be synonymous, Brevet and Honorary are most definitely not synonymous, army rank and Bt. rank seem almost synonymous. I know that an officer doing a company commander’s job in an acting capacity was automatically given temporary promotion [and the rate for the job] after 30 days, and I know that the Army List used the same symbol both for temporary promotions and temporary commissions, so the only rank where we know what the asterisk means is 2Lt, in that this must mean Temporary commission.One last thought, from studying RWF Army Lists 1895 to 1914. Promotion was by seniority but conditional on the ability to pass the exams, with small seniority adjustments made from time to time for less-than-obvious reasons and published in the London Gazette. I can find no instance where possession of a Bt. allowed an officer to queue-jump, although such an analysis is made difficult by the tendency for a fair few senior captains to have acquired a Bt. by the time they were near the top of the list. There are, however, examples of officers “parachuted in” to the regiment at Major rank, holding Bt. Lt col, and rising to lt col in the regiment before departing, with a Bt. colonelcy, to the staff. There seems to have been a mutual “deconfliction” by senior captains and senior majors, who could read a seniority list with an eye to possible further promotion. If one had little chance [there were only two lt col posts for regular officers in the whole regiment, with possibly a third for the SR battalion] then one could take the money and go on to half pay or pension.

After the war started, all bets were off, and many things changed ….. perhaps we could start to list them?

Please, if any errors detected, or Pals can add to this, I would be grateful.

As an example, consider WH Stanway 2nd RWF.

Company Sergeant Major William Henry Stanway. He features frequently in TWTIK and contributed to it, but was not acknowledged as a contributor by Dunn. Richards admired him greatly, as clearly did Dunn, ‘Stanway has been given command of a battalion of Cheshires: an achievement for one who was only Company Sergeant Major only twenty months ago’ [TWTIK 2 July 1916]. William was born in Manchester on 13 August 1881. He served in the South African war with RWF and went to India in 1904. He was serving as CSM, number 6193, to Captain Geiger in A Company when the battalion went to France. Geiger called him ‘my excellent Sergeant Major’. He was commissioned [being a regular soldier, qualified for a regular commission] in the field on 28 October 1914 at La Cordonnerie and went initially to C Company. His promotions were rapid: Temporary Lieutenant 9 February 1915, Lieutenant 21 May 1915, Temporary Captain 8 August 1915. TWTIK observed that ‘Stanway was giving occasional but deadly aid to the snipers. Once he snapped an officer where the German parapet was low. Another day he got a pheasant for the pot. He had a disconcerting habit at one time of keeping his revolver on the table when playing cards, to shoot rats as they ran along the cornice beam of the dug-out’. His MC was gazetted 14 January 1916, a general citation. Stanway’s first DSO [LG 22 July 1916] was awarded for his leading part in saving the situation when the Red Dragon mine was exploded on 22 June 1916.

‘For conspicuous gallantry and ability when the enemy exploded a large mine which wrecked some 75 yards of our trench, and attacked in force after bombing the spot heavily, several officers being incapacitated. Captain Stanway, who commanded the next company, at once took charge, and after the enemy had been driven off with great skill and coolness, occupied the lip of the crater and organised defence’. A contemporary map of the area of the Red Dragon Crater is at page 72.

He was gazetted Acting Lieutenant Colonel 4 July 1916 and was given command of 6Cheshires. Whilst Stanway was commanding the Cheshires, Edmund Blunden crossed his path [same brigade] and Blunden’s Undertones of War noted Stanway’s ‘indicatory stick, speaking calmly of the night’s shelling, the hard work necessary to keep the trenches open and the enemy’s advantage of observation’.

He was made a substantive Captain [RWF] 30 December 1916 and earned a bar to his DSO [MC recommended, DSO substituted] with the Cheshires, LG 26 January 1917:

‘For conspicuous gallantry in action. He handled his battalion in the attack with great courage and ability. He captured the position, inflicting much loss on the enemy and took a large number of prisoners.’.

The accompanying photograph was taken after he was transferred to the South Wales Borderers towards the end of the war. AL September 1918 has him a substantive SWB Captain, seniority 30 December 1916, with a Brevet of Major 1 January 1918, employed with 1/6 Cheshires. The supplement ‘War Services of Officers’ 31 December 1922 lists him as a Brevet Lieutenant Colonel SWB. In addition to the above awards, he was Mentioned in Despatches three times. Stanway’s post-war career was in India, where he was Adjutant Indian Defence Force 1921 to 1929, Commandant Nucleus Depôt Railway Reserve Regiment from 1929 to 1933, and Director of Military Prisons and Detention Barracks India from 1933. William commanded the substantial mixed force which put down the mutiny of the Connaught Rangers by virtue of his brevet, which gave him seniority when not on regimental duty. He was awarded the OBE for his work for ex-servicemen. He retired on 13 August 1936, went to live in South Africa, and acted as a recruiting officer during the Second World War. William Henry Stanway died in Bergville, Natal, in 1961. His PRO reference is P8838 but no file is available on him at present.

[Muerrisch]

" ......although some of these temporary officers were offered permanent regular commissions if they accepted they reverted to 2nd Lieut. [/font][/size]"

No. Temporaries who achieved the unusual distinction of a regular commission were eligible for back-dating in the seniority list of their regiment to whichever temporary rank they had achieved.

Here is an example from my book "DUTY DONE", 2nd RWF in the Great War:

Second Lieutenant Percival Moody. Moody was an outstanding example of the new talent that war recruited to the Army. He served after the war and therefore there is no current access to his WO file. There is however a regimental obituary and a substantial amount of information from TWTIK, the Army List and his published comrades in arms. Percy enlisted in the Artists Rifles September 1910, rose to Corporal and embarked for France 24 October 1914. He was an early arrival with the battalion, together with Higginson [qv] and Binge Owen having received a temporary commissioned 1 January 1915. They reported for duty 16th instant, still in Other Ranks kit. His Colonel decided that Moody would learn to ride. By September 1915 he was OC B Company [Temporary Captain 26 September 1915] , became a substantive Lieutenant 8 October 1915 and was serving as OC D Company on 23 October of that year. He received the Military Cross LG 14 January. He was still OC D Company in July and was slightly wounded in the foot 20 July 1916 on the Somme in an action that earned him a Mention in Despatches and subsequently a bar to his MC [DSO recommended, MC awarded] gazetted 9 September. The citation reads

for conspicuous gallantry, during a raid. He organised and led his company with great dash, the result being that the raid was completely successful.

Moody was back at duty from hospital in Rouen by 16 August. Siegfried Sassoon saw him as a little nonentity with pudding face and black hair, but a stout soldier worthy of his laurels. Impressions are very subjective and Llewelyn Evans described him as debonair! [He was once surprised in the bath by a gas attack and was seen to be wearing a gas helmet and nothing else. Difficult to maintain a debonair image under such conditions]. He became sick later in the year and arrived back just before Christmas on 23 December 1916. New Year 1917 brought the news [5 January] that he had been granted a regular commission in the Regiment with seniority as a Lieutenant backdated to October 1915. On 22 January he reported as an instructor to GHQ and went from there to 1RWF from 16 April to 21 May before rejoining 2RWF on 26 May 1917. Percival Moody went to the Depôt 15 August and rejoined 26 October 1917, when he became OC C Company as a Temporary Captain. As a regular officer he was eligible for the prestigious appointment of Adjutant and held this post according to the Army List from 1 April 1918 to 31 July, but in fact from about 5 January [TWTIK]. He was again Mentioned on 3 June and was sent to UK on six months exchange 11 August and waited not on the order of his going. He went as an Instructor to a Corps School. His war was such that his Index entries in TWTIK run to six lines. He was a substantial contributor to TWTIK and his account of Armistice night in London is a significant offering.

Percy Moody resigned his commission 29 July 1919 and rejoined the Regiment on the outbreak of the second world war, rose to Lieutenant Colonel, retired August 1945 and lived until August 1964.

[David_Underdown]

My impression is that local rank was more aking to acting rank than "temporary", limited to a particular theatre, and I think at the discretion of the lcoal commander. Have no specific reference to back it up, but in more recent contexts some of the senior officers sent to eg Iraq or Afghanistan were given local rank as Lt-Gen or Gen, presumably so they wouldn't be outranked by allies.

[Muerrisch]

Acting rank was usually only brief, converted to temporary if the duly appointed incumbent did not return [including from wounds or death]

Local rank was much longer term, held as long as the officer was doing the job, often in a colony etc.

So we disagree.

[dfaulder]

Quote 'GRUMPY'

>><<

Please, if any errors detected, or Pals can add to this, I would be grateful.

>><<

I am wary of declaring errors, but might venture to add to the soup of confusion - and then we can see if it boils down to some consensus.

Trying to disentangle "Temporary":

Commissions

A temporary commission was for "the duration of the war". My previous understanding of this is confirmed at least by Lewis-Stempel (Six Weeks) who says (p49):

Subalterns entering the Special Reserve received permanent commissions, but were expected to be full-time soldiers only while hostilities lasted; afterwards they went on the Reserve list, from which they could be called up in the event of another emergency. A temporary commission was for the duration of the war only.

So there is a distinction between being an officer for the duration (temporary) and being a full-time officer for the duration (permanent). This fits with how I understand my Grandfather's story; He enlisted (as a Private) in the Inns of Court OTC (City of London Regiment) which was part of the Territorial Force. From there he was commissioned into the Special Reserve (3rd York and Lancs). The commission itself shows no sign of being "temporary".

Gentlemen

Lewis-Stempel again confirms my understanding of this (to us) anachronistic distinction (p59-60):

Never-the-less, the war did see a marked influx of men into the general officer corps whose social occupations were not 'pukka', and who would not have had a sniff of a Territorial, let alone a Regular, commission in July 1914. By 1918 about 40 per cent of officers came from working and lower-middle class backgrounds. Since they were now officers, these 'lower faction' men, by the iron logic of the era, had to be accorded the status of gentlemen. The logic was still more iron clad; because their commissions were temporary, so must their status be transient. Thus, they were 'Temporary Gentlemen'.

The pages that follow are an interesting exposition of the snobbery of that time. I suspect that my Grandfather being taken into the Inns of Court OTC in 1915 (on the basis of his having been to public school) was viewed as an established Gentlemen - even though his late father (joint partner of a substantial woollen wholesalers in Huddersfield) was possibly a little looked down on as having made his money "in trade".

Rank and Appointment

Looking just at my Grandfather's experience, which I summarise(!):

His commission as a Second Lieutenant is dated 14 June 1915. It was gazetted in the London Gazette:

The under mentioned members of the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps to be Second Lieutenants (on probation): …

Harold Faulder, 3rd Battalion, York and Lancaster Regiment.

The London Gazette records various (mainly temporary) promotions or appointments including:

·

To temp Lt: 1 September 1916

· To temp Capt: 15 March 1917

· To be Adjutant: 16 May 1917

· To be Lieutenant: 1 Jul 1917

· Relinquishes the temp. rank of Capt. on alteration in posting: 15 Feb. 1918

From June 1916 until February 1918, he was attached to 14th Y&L (A "New Army" Battalion). On the 28th January 1918 the Battalion War Diary records:

Lieut Col W B Hulke proceeded on leave to England Capt H Faulder assumed command of battalion during CO's absence

He was acting commanding officer (as a Temporary Captain) until the battalion was disbanded on 16th February. There is no evidence of an Acting rank (of Major or Lt-Colonel). During this time he over-saw the dispersement of fellow officers - many to the 13th Y&L (another New Army battalion). When he left the 14th Y&L for the 4th Entrenching Battalion, he left the New Armies, and consequently "relinquished his temporary rank". Those officers who he saw transferred to the 13th Y&L, of course did not "leave the New Armies" and their ranks were unaffected.

He either did not realise this subtlety (or may have ignored it) - it was not Gazetted until 4 June. He turned up with the 1/4th Y&L on 22nd April and was killed in action whilst leading a company on 26th April. The 1/4th always referred to him as a Captain and CWGC commemorates him as such.

The War Office however, in writing to his widow, referred to him as "Lieutenant" - much to her distress. His service file (at the National Archives) is mainly made up of correspondence about his rank at death (including from Major Leslie Brierly - a childhood friend of my Grandmother and later Professor of International Law at Oxford and a Nuremburg Prosecutor). The WO stuck to the fact that the Gazette said he relinquished his rank on 16th February. A letter in the name of the Commander in Chief, British Army of the Rhine written on 1st June 1919 states:

He was bearing the badges of the rank at the time of his

death, but was not holding the rank.

A letter from Capt Branson (of the 1/4th York and Lancaster Regiment) to the War Office on 23rd January 1920, in answer to a query about Harold Faulder's rank refers to the fact that:

he had not served

the required 14 days to be granted the acting rank

of Captain.

(my underlining)

His father-in-law wrote:

… It looks uncommonly like robbing the dead, or as through when he fell in defence of his country he had been degraded. Is this the way to treat those who gave up secure billets in other countries voluntarily to come home at their motherlands need? …

A draft final reply in the service file includes this paragraph (again my underlining):

I am to add, however, that for all purposes of reference, your son-in-law may be described as Captain, as such rank would have been granted to him, had he lived to relinquish his commission after the War, he

having held that rank for a period in excess of six months

.

The Military Secretary required that this paragraph was removed from the Final Version - getting killed it would seem was different to relinquishing your commission.

Conclusions?

More confusions! I would welcome comments on:

1. I assume the commission "on probation" was standard and somewhere there will be a record saying that it was confirmed.
2. An officer from the Special Reserve (therefore Permanent Commission), gets attached to a New Army battalion and receives a Temporary Promotion, yet loses this when transferred out of the New Army (He kept the Substantive promotion he received whilst in the New Army)
3. He serves as a Temporary Captain in the New Army for 11 months - which would apparently have entitled him to be described as a Captain, if he had due to illness relinquished his commission on 26th April - instead of getting killed on that day. Six months seems to be the important criterion.
4. To gain an Acting Captaincy with 1/4th he needed to have served 14 days as a Company Commander - he got killed 10 days too early.
5. Yet he served 19 days as acting Commanding Officer of the 14th Y&L and did not get an Acting Rank! Was this due to being over-looked at a difficult time; or were the rules different in the New Armies?
6. Were things actually far more ad-hoc than we like to imagine?

David

[David_Underdown]

Acting rank was usually only brief, converted to temporary if the duly appointed incumbent did not return [including from wounds or death]

Local rank was much longer term, held as long as the officer was doing the job, often in a colony etc.

So we disagree.

When you put it like that I think we do actually agree, in a way. You often see gazette entries (as has been mentioned) for so-and-so to hold the rank of acting captain while commanding a company and similar. If he ceased to command a company before the necessary time had passed to convert that to temporary rank, the officer reverted to there previous rank. Likewise with local rank, once you stopped doing the job for which you had been given that rank, you reverted, though I accept what you say about it generally (or potentially) lasting longer than acting rank normally would.

[kenf48]

To clarify some of the sources in my previous post, the Army Order creating temporary commissions (as opposed to temporary promotions - see below) was published in the Times. I assume in full which, for the avoidance of doubt I've copied from the Archive without comment. Unfortunately the Times seldom gives the AO reference and no doubt it was tweaked as the war dragged on and casualties mounted:-

Promotion in the New Armies

Temporary Rank during War

"The following Army Order with reference to the temporary promotion of infantry officers in the new Armies is issued by the War Office:-

The promotion that may be given to infantry officers serving with the new Armies will be temporary and for the duration of the war. Temporary rank automatically ceases on the conclusion of the war or on the officer ceasing to do duty with the new Armies if before the conclusion of the war.

Promotion will be carried out by battalions on the recommendations of commanding officers, who will submit to General Officers Commanding separate rolls for each Battalion. These rolls should be forwarded through the usual channel to the War Office with the recommendation of the Brigade and Divisional Commanders and no promotions should be notified until the recommendations have been approved by the Army Council.

Only those officers should be selected for promotion who are considered by their commanding officer to be qualified. Promotion will be governed primarily by an officer's efficiency and value: but consideration of seniority, age and experience should also be borne in mind. It is not in the public interest that too much aatention should be paid to the accident of priority of joining the above units.

Subject to the above instructions in regard to the grant of temporary rank the promotion of Regular officers serving with the new Armies will continue in their regular corps under existing warrants and regulations."

The Times Monday Nov 23 1914 pg 9 issue 40705;col F

http://callisto10.ggimg.com/doc/LT/WrapPDF=contentSet=LT=recordID=0FFO-1914-NOV23-009-F.pdf

The content of this AO caused some dissatisfaction among Regular officers, and if you have access to the Times Digital archive the factual report above is followed by a commentary from 'our military correspondent' outlining some of the issues causing concern. For the Regular officers it was what we might call a 'cultural change' and while the scale and duration of the War may have been identified by Kitchener it may not have been so apparent to others.

A Temporary Commission (for the duration of the war) was in all other respects subject to the privileges and responsibilities as a Regular Commission whereas Temporary or 'Acting' promotion were used interchangeably as outlined below..

The Times also reported on February 11 1915, that in a submission to the Army Estimates C'ttee changes to the temporary promotion of officers were proposed, in outline setting out the position referred to in my previous post that where promotion resulted from a death the officer promoted always took substantive rank. Where an officer was taken prisoner or missing temporary rank would be given for the first three months and afterwards would be made permanent. This proposal introduces another and perhaps confusing kind, of 'temporary promotion'.

By 1917, In the exchange in Hansard quoted above Major Hunt was addressing the grievances of officers in the Indian Army, Chamberlain was the Secretary of State for India, hence his reply (prior to the exchange above):-

"It was stated that a temporary step of rank would be given to an officer acting in a higher regimental position than his substantive position for more than thirty days. Temporary rank of this kind (now called "acting rank") is relinquished, both in the British and the Indian Army, when the officer ceases to hold the appointment in respect of which it was given. Rank granted in accordance with the second heading of the communiqué gives permanent seniority relatively to both substantive and brevet rank."

The parentheses are in the original report and he is quite clearly identifying the distinction, and attempting to clarify the confusion over the interchangeability of the use of 'temporary'.

His later comment, "These matters are rather technical", are perhaps evidenced by this thread, but I do feel it's being over complicated.

There is no no doubt the distinctions were well understood at the time and in 1919 when commissioned officers were being demobilised in their hundreds (and many of these suffered great financial hardship) a letter from 'Three Acting Captains' written to the Times outlines their grievance that whilst an officer may have held an 'acting' rank for two or more years no account was made of this when the gratuity was awarded on demobilisation and the amount of gratuity was solely based on substantive or temporary rank. They, incidentally identified and defined three types of rank; substantive, temporary and acting.

By definition (being demobilised at the end of the war) these 'Three Acting Captains' held Temporary Commissions and it is not difficult to see how it was quite possible for an officer to hold all three classifications as described by these officers at any one time i.e. a substantive Lieutenant (with a Temporary Commission) could be promoted to temporary major and in the event of his commanding officer being sick or wounded become an acting Lt Col.

Ken

[Muerrisch]

Kenf48:

thank you, a useful piece of digging which adds to our knowledge.

The " ......... temporary [now called acting] ..... quotation is susceptible to two interpretations:

1. now meaning as hitherto, about to change, or

2. now meaning as now introduced, changing the previous position.

There is no doubt in my mind that [regardless of the the type of commission, be it regular, SR, TF or Temporary / New Army] that the field sequence was

firstly to act, as in the case of one's senior briefly absent, secondly after 30 days to be given temporary promotion and receive the rate for the job.

I have correspondence from an officer's widow to the War Office successfully arguing for the 30 day rule in so far as it affected the pension.

One other contribution. During the war, the Army List used the asterisk * to mean Temporary. There was no annotation for Acting. Thus, a substantive regular 2nd Lt [for example] if temporarily promoted to Lt, would appear [X] * Carruthers F in the list of regimental Lts on his regular battalion listing, where X signifies the battalion within the regiment he was serving.

[kenf48]

There is no doubt in my mind that [regardless of the the type of commission, be it regular, SR, TF or Temporary / New Army] that the field sequence was

firstly to act, as in the case of one's senior briefly absent, secondly after 30 days to be given temporary promotion and receive the rate for the job.

I have correspondence from an officer's widow to the War Office successfully arguing for the 30 day rule in so far as it affected the pension.

I don't think there is any disagreement there, as soon as a key officer (for example a Battalion or Company Commander) was either kiiled or wounded, then a more junior officer would take command. I think we would all understand that as 'acting'. If he survived then in 30 days the appointment should have been gazetted as 'temporary' and back dated (as in the case cited above). Therefore it's not surprising the widow was successful in making her claim. It was a precedent referred to in the debate on Army estimates (as above) as early as 1915 when during the debate the Prime Minister stated:-

"Take, for instance, the case, which I think is a very hard one, put by the right hon. Gentleman, that of a man, perhaps a captain, who through the hazard of the campaign, finds himself in the temporary rank of lieutenant-colonel commanding his battalion. He is killed in the hour of battle, and I think everybody will agree that his widow ought to receive pension on the scale of his temporary rank, and not of his previous rank. I think that ought to be retrospective."

The link to the debate which covers a number of these issues and concerns, while far too long to include here is at:-

http://hansard.millb...9150422_HOC_325

However unsurprisingly in the circumstances and scale of casualties that occurred virtually as soon as the old Regular Army went into action in 1914 the administration was slow to respond to what was, of necessity, happening in the field. This prompted yet another exchange in the House in May 1915 when Mr Shirley Benn again raised the issue of 'majors acting for months as officers commanding' [regiments] and demanding when they would be gazetted.

Harold Tennant then Under Secretary of State for War replied on behalf of the PM that 'immediate measures' were being undertaken [to make the appointment temporary or substantive] in accordance with previous declarations made in Parliament.

I think this together, with the observations of the 'Three Acting Captains' is evidence that officers often held acting rank for longer than three months,

or even the 30 days after which, in an ideal world, they should have been gazetted.

As Asquith also said in the debate referred to above it was inevitable that peace time systems of pay, promotion and pensions should undergo extensive change (as, one could argue did everything else!).

Ken

[Liz in Eastbourne]

...

I think this together, with the observations of the 'Three Acting Captains' is evidence that officers often held acting rank for longer than three months,

or even the 30 days after which, in an ideal world, they should have been gazetted.

...

The example of Major Richard N Abadie, DSO, appears to fit in with this.

Abadie held the acting rank of Lt-Col, commanding 2nd Battalion KRRC, from 21 August 1916 until he was killed in action at Nieuport on 10 July 1917 - more than ten months. The notice in the London Gazette of 12 Oct 1917 simply said 'Maj RN Abadie DSO relinquishes the actg rank of Lt-Col 10th July 1917'.

I thought it was extraordinarily callous and at first imagined he had been disgraced in some way (quite the contrary, as it turned out) but assumed it was accepted at the time, and done for financial reasons. I am very interested to know that it was in fact a matter of parliamentary debate at the time.

Liz

[JesseM88]

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but this is a topic I find rather interesting.

In terms of Non-Commissioned Officers were the rules/practices any different than with the Commissioned ranks? I ask because the picture in my avatar is of my great-grandfather shortly before he rejoined his Battalion as an Acting-Sergeant Major, but he's got the actual insignia of a Sergeant Major on his tunic. His obituary states he was a Sergeant Major at his regimental depot so maybe he was just sent to France as a (possibly) temporary replacement? Official documents and his grave still refer to him simply as Sergeant, so I've always assumed he just died before the promotion was made substantive.

[kevinrowlinson]

As far I as see it it changed after Sept. 1916 when effectively only men at home could be given acting ranks, unless a unit needed an NCO to bring it up to establishment. Given most of the main units, and therefore the establishments for such units, were overseas was why it was introduced. It's obvious that sending out a lot of NCOs from England to a battalion that may have its quota of say Cpls or Sgts wasn't really a good idea. Therefore they would revert to their substantive rank when leaving for overseas but obviously would become eligible as and when a vacancy arose. Temporary ranks ( for NCOs and WOs) did not come in again until 1919 for the Army of Occupation and was effectively higher than an acting rank.

Your gt. grandfather was correct in wearing the rank of SM even when acting at home, and would have been addressed as such until he was reverted on going overseas again.

Kevin

[JesseM88]

As far I as see it it changed after Sept. 1916 when effectively only men at home could be given acting ranks, unless a unit needed an NCO to bring it up to establishment. Given most of the main units, and therefore the establishments for such units, were overseas was why it was introduced. It's obvious that sending out a lot of NCOs from England to a battalion that may have its quota of say Cpls or Sgts wasn't really a good idea. Therefore they would revert to their substantive rank when leaving for overseas but obviously would become eligible as and when a vacancy arose. Temporary ranks ( for NCOs and WOs) did not come in again until 1919 for the Army of Occupation and was effectively higher than an acting rank.

Your gt. grandfather was correct in wearing the rank of SM even when acting at home, and would have been addressed as such until he was reverted on going overseas again.

Kevin

I should clarify, in addition to his obituary, he was referred to as 'Acting CSM' by his CO in France, as well as a fellow NCO who also wrote to my great-grandmother about him after he died.

[Ron Clifton]

There was no brevet rank for NCOs, and I don;t think there was such a thing as temporary rank either, in the strict sense as used about officers. I don't know if much use was made of local rank, but even today lance-corporals and corporals of the Foot Guards are given local rank as corporals and sergeants respectively - which is why you never see men with a single white chevron on the Queen's Birthday Parade.

That only leaves acting rank as applicable to NCOs. The senior Regular NCO with a Special Reserve or Territorial Force unit was called the Acting Sergeant-Major, because before 1915 there was no rank of WOII and he did not qualify for a warrant appointment as the RSM of a regular battalion did.

Ron

[kevinrowlinson]

Quote, "I should clarify, in addition to his obituary, he was referred to as 'Acting CSM' by his CO in France, as well as a fellow NCO who also wrote to my great-grandmother about him after he died."

You are correct in that I do not fully understand exactly what you are asking. If he was acting rank at home and in France then his substantive rank was still Sergeant. Whether he would have been promoted to CSM he unfortunately never knew. While he was "acting" he was the CSM at that time.

Kevin

[nigelcave]

Off Great War, but possibly relevant: when my father was appointed Defence Attache to Budapest many moons ago he was a substantive major, a temporary lieutenant colonel and a local colonel (this because the army was the senior of the two attaches [the other, not surprisingly, given the lack of a Hungarian coastline, being an airman] in post). On return to the UK he reverted to major. When he reached the dizzy heights of substantive lieutenant colonel, his service in Budapest counted as time served as a Lt Col. He ended up as an honorary colonel.

One thing he did not do was change his mess kit, so for some years he was masquerading as the Colonel Commandant of the Intelligence Corps (who at that time, I think, was Field Marshal Templer).

[JesseM88]

If he was acting rank at home and in France then his substantive rank was still Sergeant. Whether he would have been promoted to CSM he unfortunately never knew. While he was "acting" he was the CSM at that time.

Kevin

I think this nails it, thanks kevrow.