vetje Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 This was on Ebay.co.uk Any good? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Why? please enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Sorry to be so brief, it was late! Infantry didn't wear this pattern of cap in WW1, only RFC, so the badge and the date are not compatible. It doesn't have the look of an other ranks' RFC cap, but it does look like a WW2 forage cap, and I think that's what it is, with a spurious date added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Sorry to be so brief, it was late! Infantry didn't wear this pattern of cap in WW1, only RFC, so the badge and the date are not compatible. It doesn't have the look of an other ranks' RFC cap, but it does look like a WW2 forage cap, and I think that's what it is, with a spurious date added. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Many thanks for the reply and explanation, I'm afraid I am the type of person who would ahve jumped in with both feet and purchased this item solely on the date imprinted on the inside, so I am very glad to learn a bit more about these items. Best regards, Murrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Many thanks for the reply and explanation, I'm afraid I am the type of person who would ahve jumped in with both feet and purchased this item solely on the date imprinted on the inside, so I am very glad to learn a bit more about these items. Best regards, Murrough. That buying tactic is likely to result in expensive mistakes, as there are a lot of spurious markings and outright fakes on the market. At least try to know what you are looking for. A search on this forum will reveal plenty of pictures of original caps, and some fakes. Studying as many original photos as you can, and handling original items if possible, is also a very good idea. Regards, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vetje Posted 31 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2010 That buying tactic is likely to result in expensive mistakes, as there are a lot of spurious markings and outright fakes on the market. At least try to know what you are looking for. A search on this forum will reveal plenty of pictures of original caps, and some fakes. Studying as many original photos as you can, and handling original items if possible, is also a very good idea. Regards, W. Hello, Thanks alot, had some doubts but I was convinced that the stamp was original, guess not. Luckily I haven't payed the item yet and posted it here. Regards Alexander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 1 June , 2010 Share Posted 1 June , 2010 Luckily I haven't payed the item yet and posted it here. Alex Might seem like a silly question, but why buy something before researching it, especially if doubts already exist? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 1 June , 2010 Share Posted 1 June , 2010 While not seen universally during WWI the cap itself can be found being worn by Regulars, Militia, Special Reservists, Volunteers and Territorials long before 1914. The attached illustration shows a lad of the 4th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers c.1902. I have other photo's in my collection showing it being worn on several occassions. So I wouldn't dismiss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 1 June , 2010 Share Posted 1 June , 2010 Graham I think that's a blue undress cap in your photo. They quite often crop up in early photos, and were sometimes worn in the Boer War with the KD. I still doubt that a khaki version was ever worn by infantry. Regards, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 June , 2010 Share Posted 1 June , 2010 Graham I think that's a blue undress cap in your photo. Based purely on the tone of the photograph I would agree. There are also quite a few images which appear to show "Kitchener Blue" uniforms with forage caps. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 I have to agree that the hue on the first photo is probably the blue verion of the FSC, but they did come in various colours. This is the one worn by 1st VB,NF pre-1909. You may find that Volunteer/Territorial Cyclist units with no full dress or equivalent may have worn a khaki FSC, as I sure I've seen photo's of them wearing such a cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Courtesy of "Soldiers of the Queen" a St.John's Ambulance Volunteer who served in South Africa 1900. This appears to be khaki, but what shade exactly I'm unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 B*gger - will have to get my eyes tested. I honestly thought the date said 1907 on the cap, but it say's '1917' doesn't it? Sorry lads can only apologise. I wonder if any Volunteer Force units adopted it, as well as the RFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 I have an FS cap that is exactly the same as the one in the photo. It came from Northampton, and has a pre-1901 cap badge on it (to the Northamptons). That is its own castle with flag, and the long key. It has a slider on it, not lugs - which apparently were used more often on pre 1901 cap badges (?). The badge had clearly been on their for sometime as the blued 'rust' from the brass had left its mark. There is no clear date inside the cap. Apparently it came from the sellers father or grandfather, she was unsure which. One of them served in the Home Guard during the Second World War. It is certainly an earlier design of FS cap, but is there any other way of dating it? One of the buttons on the front had been stitched on upside down - perhaps due to a rushed replacement? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Here is a known WWII cap for comparison. (oddly enough also from Northants, and also issued to the HG) This one has a broad arrow stamp inside (just visible) and maker and size (although maker is illegible) I suspect there is a date as part of this stamp. I have another one which I will check when I can get to it to see if it is dated. Regarding the upside down button - could be a hasty repair or could it be the back of the button has come loose from the front and it can be turned? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Thanks for that Chris. Where abouts in Northants was it from? It looks to be in mighty fine condition. Mine still has the marks from the brill cream in it! I am still debating whether I should get it cleaned up or not. The stitching to the button looks identical to the other button, which put me off the idea of a repair. I will check to see if the button front was at all loose. Which side at the stamps on yours? I will check and see if I can spot any on mine, I had a good look, but the owner clearly liked the brill cream! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 What was the regulation way to wear this cap - centrally or to one side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Thanks for that Chris. Where abouts in Northants was it from? It looks to be in mighty fine condition. Mine still has the marks from the brill cream in it! I am still debating whether I should get it cleaned up or not. The stitching to the button looks identical to the other button, which put me off the idea of a repair. I will check to see if the button front was at all loose. Which side at the stamps on yours? I will check and see if I can spot any on mine, I had a good look, but the owner clearly liked the brill cream! JC The stamp is just visible on the lower picture (broad arrow just to the right of the line between the two eyes) The size and maker name is on the other side of the crease so ...as you wear the hat (photographic evidence would suggest the answer to Phil B's question is "the side"! however I do not know what the regulations say!)... the arrow is on the right and the size (6 7/8th) and maker is on the left side. The cap is from Rushden. I'm still looking for the other one! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jun 2 2010, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What was the regulation way to wear this cap - centrally or to one side? Always seems to have been worn tilted to the wearers right to show off the cap badge, except possibly by Officers, who seem to have worn service headgear badly for decades. By WW2 the forage cap habit had reached extremes. I think my Grandfather had his stapled to the tip of his right ear. I've just looked at his photo it defies gravity! Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 I have an FS cap that is exactly the same as the one in the photo. It came from Northampton, and has a pre-1901 cap badge on it (to the Northamptons). That is its own castle with flag, and the long key. It has a slider on it, not lugs - which apparently were used more often on pre 1901 cap badges (?). The badge had clearly been on their for sometime as the blued 'rust' from the brass had left its mark. There is no clear date inside the cap. Apparently it came from the sellers father or grandfather, she was unsure which. One of them served in the Home Guard during the Second World War. It is certainly an earlier design of FS cap, but is there any other way of dating it? One of the buttons on the front had been stitched on upside down - perhaps due to a rushed replacement? JC This long key badge shoudl have gone out of use in 1901 but they seem to have been in use for some time later. The slider is later than 1901 and they regularly turn up in WW1 era collections suggesting they were in use during the war. This is one of the 'odditys' of badge use that defys regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 By WW2 the forage cap habit had reached extremes. I think my Grandfather had his stapled to the tip of his right ear. I've just looked at his photo it defies gravity! Tocemma There's a photo of my old dad, somewhere in the family, taken in 1939 in France, and another in N Africa, about 1943 - my wife's suggestion was boob tape. No way could that hat have stayed there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleycrabb Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 Apparently when a parade of erks was brought to attention, half their side caps fell off. Going by the lining in a couple of RAF side caps I have, it was probably the Brylcreem (axle grease) which was used to glue them 'on' which allowed for the amazing feats of gravity defiance. Talking of which, I used to work with a chap who served WW2, his father was a butcher and he used sheep's spinal fluid as hair oil, cheaper than Brylcreem I suppose. Toodleoo Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 If it ain't jaunty, it ain't on right! After the museum opening at RFC Stow Maries at the weekend i've got a wonderful, and i'm told very comical, triangle of untanned forehead from a jaunty RFC sidecap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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