AKEY Posted 15 November , 2008 Share Posted 15 November , 2008 Hello, Can anybody help with the history of the KRRC between 1914-1915, particually (I can't spell) at the 'Battle of Aubers Ridge'? This is my intrest because one of my family was in the KRRC at Aubers Ridge (that's were he was killed). Thanks Akey P.S. This my first time on the forum and I'm a bit eager.(Yet again, I can't spell) That is why I'm putting lots of topics on in one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 15 November , 2008 Share Posted 15 November , 2008 Akey Can you tell us his name and anything else you know about him, which Battalion of the KRRC he was in etc ? We can help more if we know that. You might like to read this article about a soldier of the KRRC who fought at Aubers Ridge: http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~davidt/z_ww1_slang/ Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 16 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Akey Can you tell us his name and anything else you know about him, which Battalion of the KRRC he was in etc ? We can help more if we know that. You might like to read this article about a soldier of the KRRC who fought at Aubers Ridge: http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~davidt/z_ww1_slang/ Sotonmate Sotonmate, Thanks for the reply. His name was Henry Collins but he served under the name George Collingwood. He was killed on 30-8-17 (we don't know what battle or how he died). He started off in 4th Battn of KRRC but moved to the 2nd Battn, which is the one he was in when he was killed. Thanks, Akey P.S. His Army number was 3085. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 16 November , 2008 Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Hello, Can anybody help with the history of the KRRC between 1914-1915 Akey, That's a very broad subject! The best book would be Volume V of The Annals of the King's Royal Rifle Corps by Steuart Hare and available through the Naval & Military Press. It covers all the KRRC battalions in the Great War. For a very condensed overview you could try A Brief History of the King's Royal Rifle Corps published by the Regiment. The fourth edition is the current one, but if you see one of the earlier editions they're worth getting as they cover the Great War in a bit more detail. The text of the third edition is used for the KRRC Association's History webpages: KRRC Association - Overview of First World War but be warned - the text has been scanned using an optical character reader, which has caused margin notes to get jumbled into the main text. You reach the rest of the material using the 1914-1919 button on the right hand menu. You'll find a wealth of information here on the Forum on the KRRC, as well as the sister regiment The Rifle Brigade, and on the general ethos and traditions of the rifles regiments. Just do a Search on KRRC. HTH! CHeers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 16 November , 2008 Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Akey The date shown on the Commonwealth War Graves Comission site is 09/05/1915 and he is remembered on the LE TOURET Memorial because details of his grave was lost. Here is the entry: http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=1559263 The 2nd Battalion is shown as his unit when he was killed. I will take a look in it's War Diary this week and send you some details from there later. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 16 November , 2008 Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Akey, That's a very broad subject! The best book would be Volume V of The Annals of the King's Royal Rifle Corps by Steuart Hare and available through the Naval & Military Press. It covers all the KRRC battalions in the Great War. For a very condensed overview you could try A Brief History of the King's Royal Rifle Corps published by the Regiment. The fourth edition is the current one, but if you see one of the earlier editions they're worth getting as they cover the Great War in a bit more detail. The text of the third edition is used for the KRRC Association's History webpages: KRRC Association - Overview of First World War but be warned - the text has been scanned using an optical character reader, which has caused margin notes to get jumbled into the main text. You reach the rest of the material using the 1914-1919 button on the right hand menu. You'll find a wealth of information here on the Forum on the KRRC, as well as the sister regiment The Rifle Brigade, and on the general ethos and traditions of the rifles regiments. Just do a Search on KRRC. HTH! CHeers, Mark Akey, There are also a couple of excellent, but very different, personal memoirs written by riflemen of 2nd battalion, KRRC: Giles M Eyre Somme Harvest PD Ravenscroft, MC Unversed in Arms - A Subaltern on the Western Front They both cover periods later than the Aubers attack, but you should definitely read both for the impression of the character of the battalion! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 16 November , 2008 Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Sotonmate, Thanks for the reply. His name was Henry Collins but he served under the name George Collingwood. He was killed on 30-8-17 (we don't know what battle or how he died). He started off in 4th Battn of KRRC but moved to the 2nd Battn, which is the one he was in when he was killed. Thanks, Akey P.S. His Army number was 3085. Akey, I agree with Sotonmate - Henry Collins/George Collingwood 3085, 2nd King's Royal Rifle Corps seems to have been killed on 9th May 1915 at the Battle of Aubers Ridge not on 30th August 1917. What is your source for the date of death being 30th August 1917? The KRRC Chronicle for 1915 has several pages on this attack, but it adds little to the link Sotonmate placed above. The attack failed largely due to a short and ineffective barrage leaving the defender's trenches largely intact and wire unbroken. 2/KRRC lost 48 men killed and 203 men wounded/missing. His Service Number of 3085 suggests he was a pre-war Regular soldier and, of course, both 2nd and 4th battalions were battalions of Regulars. 4th Battalion were in India immediately before the war. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 16 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Akey, I agree with Sotonmate - Henry Collins/George Collingwood 3085, 2nd King's Royal Rifle Corps seems to have been killed on 9th May 1915 at the Battle of Aubers Ridge not on 30th August 1917. What is your source for the date of death being 30th August 1917? The KRRC Chronicle for 1915 has several pages on this attack, but it adds little to the link Sotonmate placed above. The attack failed largely due to a short and ineffective barrage leaving the defender's trenches largely intact and wire unbroken. 2/KRRC lost 48 men killed and 203 men wounded/missing. His Service Number of 3085 suggests he was a pre-war Regular soldier and, of course, both 2nd and 4th battalions were battalions of Regulars. 4th Battalion were in India immediately before the war. Cheers, Mark Hi Mark, Sorry I got the dates mixed up. It was William Akester who was killed 30-8-17 and Henry Collins 9-5-15. Sorry about that. Cheers Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 16 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Akey, There are also a couple of excellent, but very different, personal memoirs written by riflemen of 2nd battalion, KRRC: Giles M Eyre Somme Harvest PD Ravenscroft, MC Unversed in Arms - A Subaltern on the Western Front They both cover periods later than the Aubers attack, but you should definitely read both for the impression of the character of the battalion! Cheers, Mark Hello Mark, Thank for the info. I'll try to look at this in a bit more detail tomorrow, it seams very interesting. Cheers Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 16 November , 2008 Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Hello Mark, Thank for the info. I'll try to look at this in a bit more detail tomorrow, it seams very interesting. Cheers Akey Akey, They're both good reads. Giles Eyre's Somme Harvest is a very dramatic and vivid account of the life of the ordinary soldier, while Ravenscroft's book is a a bit more reflective, and since it's a diary, it's also better organised if you're looking for what was happening on a particular day! Somme Harvest is easily available new (try Amazon), but I think Unversed in Arms is out of print, so you might need to go secondhand for that. Let us know how you get on! I'd also dig into the pre-WW1 history of both the King's Royal Rifle Corps and the sister regiment, The Rifle Brigade. They have fascinating histories and have been elite units for a long time with a significant influence on the development of modern soldiering. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 21 November , 2008 Share Posted 21 November , 2008 Akey I had a look in War Diary WO95/1273 for 2 KRRC. It starts in June 1915 and there is nothing for May 1915 ! Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 November , 2008 Share Posted 21 November , 2008 Akey, I agree with Sotonmate - Henry Collins/George Collingwood 3085, 2nd King's Royal Rifle Corps seems to have been killed on 9th May 1915 at the Battle of Aubers Ridge not on 30th August 1917. Cheers, Mark Akey, There's an excellent section on the Battle of Aubers Ridge in May 1915 on the main site: The Battles of Aubers and Festubert You should definitely read it. The diary of Rfn Money in the other link gives a sense of what it was like to be there, but this section has much better historical & tactical background. I have also made a map for you showing the area of the battle: [Edit 29 Nov 2008: location of Chocolat Menier Corner corrected - see below] If you use this map while you read the account on the main site, it should all make good sense. The area shown lies between Armentieres and La Bassée and is just to the west of Lille. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 23 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2008 Akey, There's an excellent section on the Battle of Aubers Ridge in May 1915 on the main site: The Battles of Aubers and Festubert You should definitely read it. The diary of Rfn Money in the other link gives a sense of what it was like to be there, but this section has much better historical & tactical background. I have also made a map for you showing the area of the battle: If you use this map while you read the account on the main site, it should all make good sense. The area shown lies between Armentieres and La Bassée and is just to the west of Lille. Cheers, Mark Hello Mark, Thank you very much for the map that you sent us, we can now understand were the battle took place and were it was near. Thanks again.... Regards, Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 23 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2008 Hello everybody, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for all the replies that you have all sent us. It has been a great help to me and my grandad. Thanks again.... Regards, Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 23 November , 2008 Share Posted 23 November , 2008 Hello everybody, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for all the replies that you have all sent us. It has been a great help to me and my grandad. Thanks again.... Regards, Akey My pleasure Akey! These trenches were where my own grandfather first experienced the front line a few months later with 12/KRRC. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 26 November , 2008 Share Posted 26 November , 2008 Akey, If you're interested in finding out a bit more about the northern prong of the (planned) pincer attack that was the Battle of Aubers Ridge, then there's a good Topic about the men from the 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade (the KRRC's sister regiment) here: 3955 Rfn Fred Peters-2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade, Letters Their attack started from the area marked in purple on my map. The topic has a lot of background to life in the Regular army. You'll also see that GWF Pal Victoria Burbidge is a specialist on this battle. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 26 November , 2008 Share Posted 26 November , 2008 Akey, You should definitely also read this excellent Topic: 2nd Rifle Brigade, Aubers Ridge, Commemoration Enjoy! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 27 November , 2008 Share Posted 27 November , 2008 Hello Akey If you need photographs of some places in the area, please let me know Very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 27 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2008 Hello Akey If you need photographs of some places in the area, please let me know Very friendly Michel Hi Michel, I joined the forum 2 weeks ago looking for info on Henry Collins and William Akester. On all of the other threads I have put my age on, I'm 11 and helping my grandad research these two GGGG Uncles. You all have been great with your info. Yes I would like some photos of Aubers Ridge. Cheers Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKEY Posted 27 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2008 Akey, You should definitely also read this excellent Topic: 2nd Rifle Brigade, Aubers Ridge, Commemoration Enjoy! Cheers, Mark Mark, Thanks for this, we have had a look at it and it is great to see the people who were at the battle on 9 May remembered. Hoping to sort out e-mail at weekend when I am not at school. Cheers Akey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 27 November , 2008 Share Posted 27 November , 2008 Mark, very interesting map indeed, is it a part of a biggest ? I see "Chocolat Menier Corner" is not at the good place, it was in fact at the crossroad of "la rue du bois" and "la rue du pont moreau" (prince's road). But maybe am I wrong. Very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 29 November , 2008 Share Posted 29 November , 2008 Mark, very interesting map indeed, is it a part of a biggest ? I see "Chocolat Menier Corner" is not at the good place, it was in fact at the crossroad of "la rue du bois" and "la rue du pont moreau" (prince's road). But maybe am I wrong. Very friendly Michel Michel, It is the northern part of a map that also shows the area of the Battle of Festubert. Unfortunately it stops just a little too soon on the northern edge - another 1-2 km would have been very nice! I might well be wrong about the exact location of Chocolat Menier Corner - I interpreted it from some text and a rather vague sketch map. You're saying it was the second junction to the south west, yes? If you are sure, then I'll correct my map and re-post it! Let me know. Perhaps you can tell the origins of the name? I have been imagining one of those tin advertising signs posted at the crossroads! I saved the original map over a year ago, when I was researching my grandfather's first experiences of the trenches in the area around Le Tilleloy. I'm afraid I neglected to make a note of the original source I can e-mail you the original source map if you PM me your e-mail address - it's too big to post without some serious compression. Many thanks for your help. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 29 November , 2008 Share Posted 29 November , 2008 Michel, .. I might well be wrong about the exact location of Chocolat Menier Corner - I interpreted it from some text and a rather vague sketch map. You're saying it was the second junction to the south west, yes? If you are sure, then I'll correct my map and re-post it! Let me know. Perhaps you can tell the origins of the name? I have been imagining one of those tin advertising signs posted at the crossroads! .. Cheers, Mark Michel, I have just found your wonderful "Then" and "Now" photos of Chocolat Menier Corner here: Aubers Ridge 1915, Chocolat Menier Corner, which brilliantly answers my question! I'll correct my map as soon as I can Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 29 November , 2008 Share Posted 29 November , 2008 Pals, The map's now corrected Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 30 November , 2008 Share Posted 30 November , 2008 Good evening Mark ! I pm my email address for the map, thank you very much for advance. Do you know the history of 2nd Royal Munsters Fusiliers on may 8th and 9 th 1915 ? Very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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