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"Manchester Pals"

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John_Hartley

Mark

Many thanks for the comment. I doubt that you'll find a more comprehensive account of the Battalion's activiities, although I did write it from the perspective of "A" Company.

Can I recommend you buy copy of the recently re-published Manchester Pals by Mike Stedman. The other relevent publsihed work (dating from the 1920s) is "The 16th, 17th, 18th & 19th Battalions, Manchester Regiment". Most "central" libraries round Manchester will have it or your local library could get it on an inter-library loan.

Of course, you may also want to have a read of the War Diary held at the National Archives at Kew.

Feel free to email or PM me off-Forum if there's anything specific I can help with.

John

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GavinH

John,

Could I also request a look up? I'd be very grateful if you could tell me whether 10142 Sgt Henry Joseph Heaton of the 18th Battalion is mentioned.

Many Thanks

Gavin

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John_Hartley

Gavin

Indeed he is. Listed as being in 5 Platoon, B Company.

I think the preparations for the book were made before the battalion left Manchester so it's interesting to see that he was already a sergeant. Any idea what sort of job he did pre-war? Or had he previosu military service?

John

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GavinH

John,

Many thanks for the look up. I have Sjt Heaton's Victory Medal, which I originally bought solely because I share his surname. It proved to be a good buy, as I later discovered that Sjt Heaton was commissioned into the RNAS in August 1917 and ended the war as a 2nd Lieutenant with the RAF. There can't be that many men who served with the Army, Navy and Airforce during the war! When commisioned he gave his occupation as an accountant. His medal is named: 10142 Sjt. H. J. HEATON. MANCH R. Presumably because he didn't see any service in a theatre of war with the RNAS or RAF. I think it is technically possible that his BWM may have been named to the RNAS, but there is no mention of this on his Medal Card.

Thanks again for the look up.

Regards

Gavin Heaton

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John_Hartley

Gavin

OK. I'm hooked. Fascinating service record, as you say

I can see why he quickly becomes an NCO. Accountant. Middle class. Dead cert for "on the spot" promotion in the Pals.

I presume from what you say that you've got copies of his papers? Was he local to Manchester? I'd be interested in knowing any local info you might have.

John

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GavinH

John,

I'm glad this is of interest. I haven't done that much research yet, but have found out a few details about Sjt. Henry Joseph Heaton:

Born 25/08/1892

Sjt. 10142, 18th Manchester Regiment

To France 18/11/1915

Commisioned RNAS 28/08/17 Temp Flt Officer.

Occupation - Accountant

01/04/1918 Transfered to RAF as 2.Lieut on probation

15/05/1918 2.Lieut (Aeroplane officer)

18/05/1919 Unemployed list.

His next of kin's address is given as Francisville, Lynton, Heaton Moor, near Stockport. Although I have had the medal for some time, I only discovered that he served with the 18th Battalion last week when I obatined a copy of the medal roll. Is there a photo of the 5th Platoon, B Company in the book? If so, are there any sergeants visible?!

Regards

Gavin

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John_Hartley

Gavin

The good news is that stripes are easily seen on the photo which confirms that Platoon Sgt R Dootson and our Sgt Heaton are both there. Unfortunately, there's no way of telling who is who. Both are young men. One looks quite at ease, the other a bit nervy and shifty. Your call which is the accountant ;)

I can't attach anything to an email sent via the Fourm, but drop me an email or PM with your own email address and I'll sort a digi-photo out for you.

Now then, you will have heard the expression "this is your lucky day". And before I go on , this is where you saw "that's a big drink I owe you, John, if ever we meet". Stockport is my research patch and the local heritage library has a very extensive file of newspaper cuttings of the time. Most are about casualties, but many mention promotions, etc. I take it that it will be worth the "virtual big drink" if I pop in and see if there's anything on him?

There's something ringing a bell with me about "Lynton" in the home address. I'm sure I've come across that somewhere............I fear another long night ahead.

John

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GavinH

An enormous virtual drink with a chaser! Many thanks for the offer John. It's much appreciated. Thanks also for the offer of the platoon photo. Only two serjeants! So near....! In return, I can offer some reciprocal look ups at the National Archives next time I'm there. Just let me know what you need. I'll send you my email address shortly.

Cheers

Gavin

"that's a big drink I owe you, John, if ever we meet"!

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harribobs

Just a further note to all, courtesy of the Manchester and Lancshire Family History Society, I now have this book on 2 CDs.

Although the information is exactly the same as in the original book, the good news is that the CD is indexed by name, linking the soldier direct to his platoon.

Also the roll of honour section is also indexed by name, giving a direct link to which institution or company he was employed by prior to enlistment. This section is not limited to Manchester Regiment

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CROONAERT
Just a further note to all, courtesy of the Manchester and Lancshire Family History Society, I now have this book on 2 CDs.

Although the information is exactly the same as in the original book, the good news is that the CD is indexed by name, linking the soldier direct to his platoon.

Also the roll of honour section is also indexed by name, giving a direct link to which institution or company he was employed by prior to enlistment. This section is not limited to Manchester Regiment

Thanks for the info.

The first CD (the platoon listings, etc) has been out for quite a while now, but I've been waiting for the second one. To be honest I'd given up on the M&LFHS ever producing it, but , now it has, it'll be an extremely useful addition as the firms and institutions part of the book is an absolute nightmare to use as research. The index will definately solve this problem.

Cheers for that :D

Dave.

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Chris_Baker

Dave/anyone

Could you please look up 17990 Pte Sidney Mowatt, who died with D Company, 20th Manc R on 16 July 1916. His medal roll says that he also had time with 26th Battalion.

Thanks in advance.

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John_Hartley

Chris

S B Mowatt is listed in Part 1 as serving with 14 Platoon, D Coy, 20th Mancs. Part 2 lists him (gotta be the same guy) as an employee of Manchester Corporation Baths Department.

Part 1 also lists a W Mowatt also serving in 14 Platoon

and a L/Cpl H M Mowatt, 11617, 13 platoon, D Coy, 19th Mancs.

Gotta be relatives

John

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barnip

Hi, I am looking for information regarding my OGDEN family who came from Ashton-Under-Lyne, near Manchester.

Three borthers joined the Manchester Regiment...info as follows...

HARRY OGDEN Private 1872 1st/9th Bn. Manchester Regiment. Died 19th June 1915 aged 19 at Port Said, Egypt.

SIDNEY OGDEN Private 1711 9th Bn. Manchester Regiment, died 20th June 1915, buried at the Lancashire Landings Cemetery, Turkey.

WILLIAM OGDEN. (My great grandfather, born 1893), Private (service number u/k) believed to have also joined the Manchester Regiment with his tow brothers, but I am unable to confirm this to date. WILLIAM was in France during WW1. He survived the war and continued to live in Ashton-Under-Lyne untill his death in 1973.

Can anyone help with information on WILLIAM OGDEN and his military career? Also, any information regarding his brothers, HARRY & SIDNEY OGDEN would also be very nice.

Thank you for taking the time to read my message...perhaps someone somewhere can help me please?

Sincerely,

Linda.

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John_Hartley

Linda

Welcome to the Forum.

I can offer a couple of bits of advice. Firstly, if you click onthe link to the Long Long trail (at the top of this page), you'll go to the mother site. There you'll find a section called "Grandad's War" which will you give you good advice about how you can find out about thier military history.

In terms of the two brothers who were with the 9th Manchesters - this Battalion was part of 42 Division. There is a pretty good history of the Division available form a company called Naval & Military Press. Well worth a read. sad that they died only a day apart.

I can tell you that both of them are recorded as having "died of wounds" i.e they were not killed outright. For Harry to have died in Egypt , he must have been wounded some time before (several days, at least) and then evacuated, by ship, to hospital. A good guess would be a particular attack on 4 June - but it is only a guess.

John

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harribobs

Linda and John

Just had a quick look and there was a W Ogden, 18th Battalion A coy 3rd Platoon,

he's photo is in the supplementary section ( would you recognise him?)

chris

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barnip

Hello John.

Many thanks for your reply. I will take time to read through your sister website. Unfortunately, I know very little of William Ogden's (my great grandfathers) WW1 military career. Yes John, I would recognise WILLIAM OGDEN. I do have a few old family photos showing William as a teenager with his family, so identifying him isn't a problem. I just don't know anything about his WW1 military career. I would like to obtain his military record at some point, but until I know for certain which part of the Manchester Regiment he was in, I don't know where to start searching. I have been a keen genealogist for the past six years, having said that, I have never searched the military records, so this is a first to me.

Thank you for your time and help. I am hopeful that the W Ogden you have found is in fact my great grandfather.

Regarding his two brothers, I think they were both at Gallipoli, the Lancashire Landings, but William I know for sure was in France.

Any help, however small is very much appreciated.

Thank you for your kindness.

Sincerely,

Linda.

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harribobs

I have managed to aquire a copy of Cotton Town Comrades

For those that don't know, it's a history of the Oldham Pals, the 24th Battalion, Manchester Regiment

chris

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rhimsl

Dave,

Some time when you have a moment I hope you wouldn't mind looking up these two Manchester Pals:

Pte. John Thomas Beaumont

Serial #28566

23rd Manchester Regiment

8th City Pals

KIA July 20, 1916

Pte. Arthur James Brocklehurst

18th Battalion (3rd City)

Manchester Pals

Serial #11295

KIA July 30, 1916

Thanks so much and Happy Holidays,

Robert

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Guest 3RAR

Dave

When you get a minute could you look up my Grandad 7451 Dawson L. (20pl/E Coy/16th Battalion)?? Would be interested if there is anything on what he was doing when he joined, date he enlisted etc.

Many thanks

Gary

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harribobs

Robert

On first look neither beaumont nor brocklehurst appear in the Pals Book of honour (CD), although their s/n's are in the right range both seem to be very late in each battalion

having said that, there's not very much info on the cd other than what you have already,

in the manchester roll of honour there are 2 poss j beaumont, one in bradfordn colleries, one j & m sharp (bradford dyers)

brocklehurst, only one and he's listed as RFA (?)

Gary

Pte L Dawson is there in pl 20, but again not much more info. Do you have the platoon photo? (in civies?)

in the roll of honour there are two references, both are with manchester corporation

not a lot of help i'm afraid

chris

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rhimsl

Chris,

Thanks anyway for trying. Every little bit of info helps!

Happy Holidays,

Robert

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harribobs
Happy Holidays,

Robert

and to you and your family mate

chris

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Guest 3RAR

Thanks Dave

Yes I have a copy of the photo-my mother (Lens daughter-in-law) reckons he is 7th from the left in the third row. Unfortunately with the passage of time, she is the only living person who would know.

All the best

Gary

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harribobs
Thanks Dave

Yes I have a copy of the photo-my mother (Lens daughter-in-law) reckons he is 7th from the left in the third row. Unfortunately with the passage of time, she is the only living person who would know.

All the best

Gary

Gary

At least you know now

we can't identify most of the blokes we look for on there

cheers

chris (not Dave, he's the rich, good looking one ;) )

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CROONAERT
(not Dave, he's the rich, good looking one ;) )

hadn't seen that line Chris! - Spot on!!!! :lol:

Anyway, just for info. - I'm pulling out of this particular thread now (you'll have seen my "announcement"), so I'll leave you all in the capable hands of John, Chris, et al.

Dave.

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