jim_davies Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 Who named the Hohenzollern Redoubt, the Germans defending it, or the attacking troops ? I can imagine that both "Big Willie" and "Little Willie" were British names after Kaiser & son, but wondered about the main position. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 Good question Jim. I think Hohen may be German for mountain, but am not sure about zollern, but mountain tends to indicate an hard to access region. Only a quess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 Hohenzollern is the name of a 'Fürstentum' (principality) in Germany (nowadays in Baden-Württemberg). Hohenzollern was where the family of the German Emperors came from. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 "Hohenzollern" was used for the British AND Germans when refering to this position. The British called the position "Hohenzollern Redoubt", while the Germans referred to it as the "Hohenzollern-Werk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 I thought Hohenzollern was the name of the family that supplied Kings to Prussia from 1701 to 1918 and German Emperors, (ie Kaisers) from 1871 to 1918 In 1871 the King of Prussia decided to use the title Kaiser,ie Deutscher Kaiser. Three successive Kaisers ruled Germany until the fall of the 2nd Reich in November 1918 ending in William 11's abdication and exile in Holland. I would think that naming a defensive position Hohenzollern,the Germans were merely honouring the German Royal family,most probably the Kaiser. I don't suppose the British of that era would have named a defensive position Saxe-Coberg-Gotha or even Windsor.Were any defensive systems named Windsor? Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 Were any defensive systems named Windsor? I don't know about the Western Front, but there is a substantial defensive system called Windsor Castle in Berkshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 15 August , 2003 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Thanks for all the informative replies, I guess the Germans may have named it first, and later the British decided to use the same name for the position. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 ... the German word for redoubt is "Veste" or "Feste", which means fortified something (castle, fortress etc). So they were called "Feste Schwaben" or this one "Feste Hohenzollern".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Two things: the Hohenzollernwerk was a place near La Bassée IIRC, heavily fought over in March 1915 by the 3. Bavarian Infantry Division the Feste Hohenzollern was not named in honour of the German royal family. It was given its name by soldiers of the XIV. Reservekorps, men from Baden and Württemberg. They gave their positions a lot of names from their region, Hohenzollern being a part of that, just like Schwaben (Schwaben redoubt). Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Parker Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Slightly off track, either the 9th or 10th Waffen SS Panzer Div's was titled Hohenzollern Just thought I'd throw that in Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Two things: the Hohenzollernwerk was a place near La Bassée IIRC, heavily fought over in March 1915 by the 3. Bavarian Infantry Division the Feste Hohenzollern was not named in honour of the German royal family. It was given its name by soldiers of the XIV. Reservekorps, men from Baden and Württemberg. They gave their positions a lot of names from their region, Hohenzollern being a part of that, just like Schwaben (Schwaben redoubt). Jan Jan,That is interesting. From what you say the Hohenzollern fortress could have been named after the Hohenzollern Castle in Baden and Wurttemburg. The other observation is were these names given to fortresses by the soldiers communicated officially as such by the German Military?.I would have thought that the German Military would have allocated names for these places from the point of restricted intelligence.Admittedly these names would be eventually become known to the Allies as the stalemate of the Western Front dragged on and battlefield front intelligence developed. What is the difference between a Feste and a Festung?, the latter seems to be more associated with German defences in World War 2 . Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Frank, no, the redoubt was not named after a castle, but after a region (the castle in Sigmaringen was named after the family, which on its turn was the name of the region). About naming places etc.: the Germans had the same habit as the British. After a certain time or battle, places were named after places in Germany, after the captors of the area, after commanders who were there or after other things. After a certain time the higher authorities accepted these names because the troops were familiar with them. Certain places were officially renamed in recognition of certain deeds. F.i. the Bois Quarante was first known as Beilwald (Axe Wood, because of the form), but was officially renamed Bayernwald in January 1915 because bavarian troops had captured it in November 1914. It kept the name throughout the war. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 What is the difference between a Feste and a Festung Frank, The difference is time: in old German language you used the word "Veste" or later "Feste" to address i.e. a castle. The word Feste is not used anymore in modern German language; today you would say "Festung". However, fortified castles like the famous one in Coburg keep their old name, in this case "Veste Coburg". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Egbert, Thanks for the explanation,so that's the reason we see Festung used in the Second World War, ie as Festung Europa. Vielen Dank Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 the Hohenzollernwerk was a place near La Bassée IIRC, heavily fought over in March 1915 by the 3. Bavarian Infantry Division <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jan - The Hohenzollernwerk/ Redoubt also figured prominently in the Battle for Loos in late Sept 1915. It is located near Fosse 8 more or less left of center between Cite St Elie and Auchy. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 Does Hohen mean mountain?I lived in Hohenstaufen one of the prettiest places in Europe in Schwabia, it produced Holy Roman Emperors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 Slightly off track, either the 9th or 10th Waffen SS Panzer Div's was titled Hohenzollern Just thought I'd throw that in Geoff <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, The 9th SS panzer Division were called the Hohenstaufen rather than Hohenzollern Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 The Official History describes " the " Hohenzollernwerk" known to the British as 'Hohenzollern Redoubt'". So it seems to have been named by the Germans and the name retained by the British. The Hohenzollern Redoubt was attacked by the Ninth Division on the first day of the Battle of Loos. According to the Official Battles Nomenclature, the Battle of Loos ended 8th October and was followed by the ' Actions of the Hohenzollern Redoubt.' That's about as official as a place name can get in terms of WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 Does Hohen mean mountain?I lived in Hohenstaufen one of the prettiest places in Europe in Schwabia, it produced Holy Roman Emperors. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Paul I think it means "high". The place where it is located is laughingly called Mont de Auchy. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 November , 2005 Share Posted 17 November , 2005 Does Hohen mean mountain?I lived in Hohenstaufen one of the prettiest places in Europe in Schwabia, it produced Holy Roman Emperors. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that in this context, hohen means mountain in the same way that mount means mountain in Mountbatten. ( An anglicisation of Battenberg). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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