Location of Photograph ' One of my old billets in the front line at Lens'

[Julianw]

This is a bit of a long shot but does anyone have an idea of where the location of this property in Lens might be?

This was taken by my grandfather, Capt Nugee, with the inscription on the back 'one of my old billetts in the front line at Lens'.

As a help he was in the 1/4 Leicestershire Regt and took part in the attack on Hill 63 in June 1917 so my guess is that this would have been taken at this time.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Julian

 

[Bob Davies]

Hi Julian,

I don't know where you have looked as yet but I believe this must be at Lievin, just to the west of Lens.

'Footsteps of the 1/4thLeicestershire Regiment' by Captain John Milne is a good reference.

This map courtesy of the National Library Scotland; https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464744

The War Diary for the 1/4th Leicesters is free to view on the National archives.

Link here; https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354510

It is an intriguing question you have asked, with a bit of detective work we may find it out.

One more which may help are from this web site. There is a reference to a detached house.

Link here; https://derbyshireterritorials.uk/tag/marqueffles-farm/

I have to look further into this.

Regards, Bob.

 

[Bob Davies]

Trying to narrow this down, from the1/4th Battalion Leicestershire Regiment  WD 10th June 1917, we have two grid references.

Image courtesy of The National Archives. War Diary WO 95 2690/1_03

'from railway M 18 b.4.0 .6.0 to road M 24 a.9.0 2.5 (Map 36C SW 1)'

Screenshot courtesy National Library Scotland with thanks. https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464744

This is slow work but worthwhile. Parts of the WD are not easy to read.

@WhiteStarLine you may be able to help us here please with some map pins.

Regards, Bob.

 

 

[Howard]

By far the quickest way to see where map references are is to put them into TrenchMapper. One has to be careful with the reference format, so these points are:-

36c.M.18.b.4.6  and  36c.M.2.a.90.25

Then change map in the left had panel.

Even the war diaries were a bit lax with reference format but they must have the dots in the right place. The sheet quadrant like SW1 or NE3 was never used in the British reference format.

Howard

 

[battle of loos]

good morning,

I leave near this aera.

now in the "fosse 9", you have the Louvre Lens museum & the football stadium for the Racing Club de Lens.

afer the war all are rebuild.

no vestige to the war in this aera.

michel

[Bob Davies]

5 hours ago, battle of loos said:

good morning,

I leave near this aera.

now in the "fosse 9", you have the Louvre Lens museum & the football stadium for the Racing Club de Lens.

afer the war all are rebuild.

no vestige to the war in this aera.

michel

Thank you Michel,

that information has saved me a lot of fruitless searching on Google maps.

I will continue looking for grid references from the regiments/ brigades of the 46th North Midland Division who were there at the time.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/46th-north-midland-division/

Edit here;

There is a good readable account of the 1/8th Sherwood Foresters/Notts and Derby, describing the area and their time there.

They are 139th Brigade. 46th North Midland Division.

Link here; https://archive.org/details/forestersgreatwar00weetuoft/page/174/mode/2up

It is just a matter of piecing it all together.

 

[Bob Davies]

One more, this is from the 138th Infantry Brigade War Diary, 6th June 1917.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14055306

Screenshot courtesy of The National Archives, above link.

So if I am reading this correctly the 4th Leicesters Battalion  HQ is at grid M28.d.7.5 5.0.

This might be the house?

Edit;

Here is square 'M 28' courtesy of https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464744

[Julianw]

Michel and Bob,

Thank you, I did drive through Lieven on Sunday, on my way to look at Hill 65, but as Michel said the area has been completely rebuilt and I suspect a building in this condition would have been demolished after the war.

Incidentally Hill 65 has been  built over with new housing and so there is no semblance of what the feature would have looked like in 1917 although you do get a semblance of the importance of the feature from its views over the surrounding land.

Julian 

[Bob Davies]

11 hours ago, Julianw said:

Michel and Bob,

Thank you, I did drive through Lieven on Sunday, on my way to look at Hill 65, but as Michel said the area has been completely rebuilt and I suspect a building in this condition would have been demolished after the war.

Incidentally Hill 65 has been  built over with new housing and so there is no semblance of what the feature would have looked like in 1917 although you do get a semblance of the importance of the feature from its views over the surrounding land.

Julian 

I am pleased that you got to see the lay of the land there Julian.

From Captain Milnes book Footprints of the 1/4th Leicestershire Regiment, it would seem that A coy under Captain Wright and C coy under Captain Nugee were the assaulting companies.

D coy under 2nd Lt A B Pick were in support.

Communication with Batt HQ was extremely difficult, on this occasion no communication was possible in day light.

So it is likely that Captain Nugee was in this area somewhere, there were a lot of buildings either destroyed or half standing but the cellars were being used by friend and foe alike.

27th June 1917, in the trenches at the foot of Hill 65.   5th South Staffords on the left 1/4 Leicesters in the middle and The 1/5th Leicesters on the right.

Regards, Bob.