References to French liaison officers and interpreters (and relations with French units) - please share

[Bryn_Hammond]

Hello, 

This is a plea to anyone who may come across any references to French soldiers or officers acting as interpreters or liaison officers in their own research in books, war diaries, personal experience accounts, etc. If you do find any such references, I'd be very grateful if you could share them, please.

I've already picked up really useful references from threads on the forum (as well as pictures, background info and stories). Whatever you have, I'd very much appreciate your sharing. All contributions will be acknowledged here and in anything I produce.

Whether it's a lengthy account, a snippet of info or even just a name, I would value your help.

To give you some idea of what I'm doing with this information, among other things I'm trying to create a biographical database of as many of those who served in this way as possible, so it can be used to get a picture of what type of person did this work, what background they came from, where their language skills came from, etc. More than this, I am finding great information on why these men received medals and awards, what happened to them if they survived the war, or how they died if not, and learning more about how their work was shaped.

In addition, some of these men appear in accounts (such as battalion histories or war diaries) at the point when British units encounter French units in the line or have to work with them in battle or during 'international' reliefs. These circumstances are of particular interest. I really want to see what was supposed to happen and what worked well, or not, on these occasions. 1918 is a year of special interest to me (but they all are, really!).

Thanks ever so much for even reading to the end of this long post! I appreciate your time and interest.

Bryn

[Keith_history_buff]

As you are probably aware, Paul Maze is probably the most well-known of them.

Jacques Vache has an excellent website, and is mentioned on here
https://mrtheinterpreter.wordpress.com/

J K Rowling's great grandfather (if I remember rightly) gets a mention on the forum, Louis Volant. His service record file at SHD Vincennes appears on "Who do you think you are?"

The late Paul de Pierres (passed away on 27 August 2022) did try to research several interpreters. I believe he had a family member who was an interpreter in WW1.

There were a number of interpreters who were awarded the MM and the DCM. There are two privately published books authored by Howard Williamson that contain those listings.

Secondary source: 

The Distinguished Conduct Medal Awarded to The Allied Armies by The British Government
As notified in The War Office Lists 2 to 74
ISBN 978-1-9996727-0-6

Here's the MM book
https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/military-medalawarded-to-the-allied-armies-by-the-british-government-during-the-great-war-1914-to-1920/

Hope this link is of interest

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/searchlives/19e Escadron du Train des Équipages Militaires/filter/type%3Dagent

Louis Eugene RENAULT is on that list, and has been mentioned on the forum. He is a teacher in Salford as per the 1891 census.

[Keith_history_buff]

It's probably asking the same question on the francophone equivalent of BMF

Some threads that may be of interest there

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?t=73262&hilit=Williamson&start=10

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?t=71305

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=518629&hilit=Williamson#p518629

[PRC]

Extracts  relating to the Brigade Interpterter From The Doings of the 15th Infantry Brigade by Edward, Lord Gleichen, (Brigade Commander from August 1914 to March 1915).

August 18th 1914

We arrived at Le Cateau at 3.10 P.M., and detrained in half an hour, baggage and all. The battalions marched off to their billets,--Dorsets and Headquarters to Ors, the other three battalions to Pommereuil: nice clean little villages both of them.

Here it was that Saint André joined us, having been cast off by the 5th Divisional Staff at Landrecies as a superfluous interpreter. Looking like an ordinary French subaltern with a pince-nez, he was in fact a Protestant pastor from Tours, son of the Vicomte de Saint André, very intelligent and "cultured," with a great sense of humour and extremely keen. I really cannot speak too highly of him, for he was a most useful addition to the Staff. In billeting and requisitioning, and in all matters requiring tact in connection with the inhabitants or the French Army, he was invaluable. I used him later as A.D.C. in action, and as "Officier de liaison" with the French troops. I don't know what his knowledge of divinity may have been, but if it was anything like equal to his military knowledge it must have been considerable. He had studied theology at Edinburgh, and his English was very fluent, luckily untouched by a Scottish accent. He was always bubbling over with vitality and go, and plunged into English with the recklessness of his race; when he couldn't express himself clearly he invented words which were the joy of the Mess,--"pilliate," "whizzle," "contemporative," and dozens of others that I can't remember; and what used to charm us particularly was that he so often went out of his way to put the accent on the wrong syllable, such as in bilyétting, brígade, áttack, ambassádor, &c. He was, indeed, a great acquisition to the Brigade.[6]

         [Footnote 6: He was subsequently awarded the D.S.O. and Croix de Guerre (aux Palmes) for excellent and gallant work achieved under fire.]

August 22nd 1914.

We shortly afterwards got orders to billet in Bois de Boussu and Dour, the real Boussu being another half mile on. But where the whole countryside was one vast straggling town, it was impossible to say where one town ended and the other began. Even the inhabitants didn't know.

Moulton-Barrett and Saint André had already got to work on the billeting, and the Norfolks and Cheshires were shortly accommodated in some factories up the road, whilst the Bedfords and Dorsets were moved back nearly into Dour, into a brewery and some mine-offices respectively, if I remember rightly.

August 25th 1914.

Next morning the Brigade was on the move before daylight, and was told off as part of the main body of the Division, the 14th Brigade forming the rear-guard. We had not had much to eat the night before, or in fact the whole day, and as the rations had not come up during the night, the men had devilish little breakfast--nor we either.

We were told to requisition what we could from the country, but though St André and myself did our best, and rode on ahead of the Brigade, routing out the dwellers of the farmhouses and buying chickens and cheese and oats wherever possible, there was very little to be had.

August 26th 1914.

The Dorsets were hard at work putting Troisvilles into a strong state of defence, and were helped by some of our Divisional Sappers, I believe the 59th Co. R.E. (but it might have been the 17th).

There was a local French ambulance--civilian I think--in Troisvilles, and several of our own R.A.M.C. personnel there; but the Divisional ambulances were farther to the rear, and as the wounded began to come in from the right front we sent them back towards Reumont. St André was very useful in galloping backwards and forwards between Troisvilles and Brigade Headquarters--I kept him for that, as I wanted my proper staff for other staff work;

August 29th 1914.

At 6 P.M. we suddenly received orders to move at once to Carlepont, only three miles back, and began to move by the shortest and most unblocked way. Just when we were moving off I received orders to move the other way, but with the sanction of the Divisional Staff I preferred going my own way, and went it.

The detail of the map, however, turned out to be incorrect, and I found myself at the far, instead of the near, end of the village, with a lot of transport in the narrow street between ourselves and our billets. This was hopeless, and after a prolonged jam in the dark I gave it up, put the battalions on to the pavement and down a side street, and told them to bivouac and feed where they were.

Meanwhile St André had got a kind Frenchman to give the staff some dinner, but I misunderstood the arrangement and could not find the place; so I insisted on digging out some food from our cook's waggon on the wet grass of a little park we found. And there we ate it about midnight and went to sleep in the sopping herbage. I fear my staff were not much pleased with the arrangement.

September 1st 1914.

We halted about Ormoy Villers station--in ruins almost, and with its big water-tank blown up,--and I put two battalions to guard the flank whilst the rest of us had a meal. Saint André had as usual managed to forage for us in the ruins, and produced a tin of sardines and some tomatoes and apples, which, with chocolate and biscuits and warm water--it was another roasting day--filled us well up.

October 26th 1914.

Next morning I rode out again to Givenchy to see Ballard and my fresh French troops; for the 6/285th (Captain Gigot), the 5/290th (Commandant Ferracci--a typical little Corsican and a good soldier), and a squadron of Chasseurs à Cheval had arrived to strengthen us, besides the three batteries aforesaid (under Commandant Menuan). The 2/70th (now under Captain de Ferron) and the 6/295th (lately under Baron d'Oullenbourg, now wounded; I have, I fear, forgotten his successor's name) were, of course, also under me; so I had a nice little command now of three English and four French battalions, four English and three French batteries, and a French squadron. St André as liaison officer was of the greatest possible use to me, being both tactful and suggestive as to dealing with my new command, and keeping up splendid communication.

November 11th 1914

The shelling continued till 10. It was on this morning that Brown was damaged and lots of windows blown in.

About that time I saw, to my consternation, a number of British soldiers retiring towards the walled garden. I sent out at once to stop them and turn them back, thinking they were Cheshires or Bedfords. To my relief they were neither, but belonged to a brigade on our right. They had been heavily shelled, and, though in no sort of panic, were falling back deliberately, though without orders. There were no officers with them--all killed or wounded, I believe. .....  A number of Zouaves and some more troops also trickled slowly back from the left with stories of appalling losses (mostly untrue) and disaster to the trenches (ditto). They were also stopped--the Zouaves by St André--and sent back. Certainly the
Frenchmen's nerve was not damaged, for I remember that several had playing-cards in their hands, and when they got to what they considered a fairly quiet spot they stopped, sat down, and went on with their game.

November 20th 1914.

We spent our day somewhat uncomfortably in the dug-out, for there was a hard frost and very little room to turn round in, and though we had a brazier, its charcoal fumes in the confined space nearly poisoned us. In the middle of the day three French officers turned up, and we made mutual arrangements for the taking over by them of this portion
of the line, Milling (of the Bedfords) guiding one party and St André the other.

Mid December 1914.

Our mess had only had one change since the beginning of the war, and that was in the signal officer. Cadell had gone sick in November, and Miles had replaced him in December. For about a month, including all the period at Ypres, we had had no signal officer (except Naylor for two days), nor any Brigade-Major from about the 12th November (at Ypres) till the beginning of December; so Sergeant King, a first-rate signaller, though not the senior, had carried on for Cadell, and Moulton-Barrett had added the duties of Brigade-Major to his own. But by the middle of December we were complete again. Weatherby had returned from his sick leave, and Miles, of the K.O.S.B.'s, was now signalling officer. ......Moulton-Barrett was still Staff Captain--very hard-working and conscientious, and very thorough; Weatherby was still Brigade-Major--keen and resourceful; Beilby was still veterinary officer--capable and
helpful; and St André was still interpreter and billeting officer--cheerful and most willing. His duties were mostly to investigate the numerous cases of natives who wanted to go somewhere or do something--generally to fetch their cows off a shell-swept field, or to rescue their furniture from a burnt village, or to fetch or buy something from Bailleul--and recommend them (or otherwise) to me for passes--a most trying duty, wearing to the temper; but he was angelic in patience, and, as a light recreation, used to accompany me
to the trenches fairly often.

One case there was where, for three nights running, great fids of wire were cut out of some artillery cables connecting them with their observers--a most reprehensible deed. So I had patrols out to spy along the lines,--no result, except that next morning another 100 yards had gone. So I made St André publish a blood-and-thunder proclamation threatening death to any one found tampering with our wires. Spies were plentiful, and a gap in our wires might be fatal.

And then the culprit owned up. It was an old woman near whose cottage the wires passed, and her fences required mending.

Cheers,
Peter

[Bryn_Hammond]

4 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

As you are probably aware, Paul Maze is probably the most well-known of them.

Jacques Vache has an excellent website, and is mentioned on here
https://mrtheinterpreter.wordpress.com/

J K Rowling's great grandfather (if I remember rightly) gets a mention on the forum, Louis Volant. His service record file at SHD Vincennes appears on "Who do you think you are?"

The late Paul de Pierres (passed away on 27 August 2022) did try to research several interpreters. I believe he had a family member who was an interpreter in WW1.

There were a number of interpreters who were awarded the MM and the DCM. There are two privately published books authored by Howard Williamson that contain those listings.

Secondary source: 

The Distinguished Conduct Medal Awarded to The Allied Armies by The British Government
As notified in The War Office Lists 2 to 74
ISBN 978-1-9996727-0-6

Here's the MM book
https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/military-medalawarded-to-the-allied-armies-by-the-british-government-during-the-great-war-1914-to-1920/

Hope this link is of interest

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/searchlives/19e Escadron du Train des Équipages Militaires/filter/type%3Dagent

Louis Eugene RENAULT is on that list, and has been mentioned on the forum. He is a teacher in Salford as per the 1891 census.

Thanks, Keith

You were one of the specific people I was thinking of in my general 'thank you'. You were an early proponent of the online access to the numeriques Registres Matricules that are a big element of where I'm getting more background on the individuals I find in other sources.

I was already aware of the Jacques Vache story and web site(s). Renault as well but I don't watch WDYTYA and so was pleased to be pointed at the JK Rowling story. The book references are all *really* helpful and much appreciated. 

I lack a bit of confidence to post on the Forum Pages 14-18 but I did see your posts there and, again, they have provided some good leads. 

Thank you again and do please let me know if you have further thoughts. I will credit you if I ever produce anything for any kind of publication.

Bryn

[Keith_history_buff]

There is a village outside of Paris associated with Van Gogh. I believe this individual was born there, to a British mother. Harold is not a name that I associate with Frenchmen. 
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/2315109

With regard to the francophone forum, DeepL and Google Translate are useful for translating. I'm rusty these days, my written accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, and I usually have a nightmare manually copying and pasting letters with accents. They are generally a friendly bunch.

One less told story is that of men associated with the Channel Isles who served in the French armed forces. Maurice Allix (1872-1952) served as an interpreter.

There's an interesting, and as yet untold story about the son of the French Consul, Ernest Amand Santiago Adolphe DENIS DE TROBRIAND. I think he enlisted in the Foreign Legion in the interwar period, under an assumed surname of O'Brien.

 

 

 

[Bryn_Hammond]

3 hours ago, PRC said:

Extracts  relating to the Brigade Interpterter From The Doings of the 15th Infantry Brigade by Edward, Lord Gleichen, (Brigade Commander from August 1914 to March 1915).

August 18th 1914

We arrived at Le Cateau at 3.10 P.M., and detrained in half an hour, baggage and all. The battalions marched off to their billets,--Dorsets and Headquarters to Ors, the other three battalions to Pommereuil: nice clean little villages both of them.

Here it was that Saint André joined us, having been cast off by the 5th Divisional Staff at Landrecies as a superfluous interpreter. Looking like an ordinary French subaltern with a pince-nez, he was in fact a Protestant pastor from Tours, son of the Vicomte de Saint André, very intelligent and "cultured," with a great sense of humour and extremely keen. I really cannot speak too highly of him, for he was a most useful addition to the Staff. In billeting and requisitioning, and in all matters requiring tact in connection with the inhabitants or the French Army, he was invaluable. I used him later as A.D.C. in action, and as "Officier de liaison" with the French troops. I don't know what his knowledge of divinity may have been, but if it was anything like equal to his military knowledge it must have been considerable. He had studied theology at Edinburgh, and his English was very fluent, luckily untouched by a Scottish accent. He was always bubbling over with vitality and go, and plunged into English with the recklessness of his race; when he couldn't express himself clearly he invented words which were the joy of the Mess,--"pilliate," "whizzle," "contemporative," and dozens of others that I can't remember; and what used to charm us particularly was that he so often went out of his way to put the accent on the wrong syllable, such as in bilyétting, brígade, áttack, ambassádor, &c. He was, indeed, a great acquisition to the Brigade.[6]

         [Footnote 6: He was subsequently awarded the D.S.O. and Croix de Guerre (aux Palmes) for excellent and gallant work achieved under fire.]

August 22nd 1914.

We shortly afterwards got orders to billet in Bois de Boussu and Dour, the real Boussu being another half mile on. But where the whole countryside was one vast straggling town, it was impossible to say where one town ended and the other began. Even the inhabitants didn't know.

Moulton-Barrett and Saint André had already got to work on the billeting, and the Norfolks and Cheshires were shortly accommodated in some factories up the road, whilst the Bedfords and Dorsets were moved back nearly into Dour, into a brewery and some mine-offices respectively, if I remember rightly.

August 25th 1914.

Next morning the Brigade was on the move before daylight, and was told off as part of the main body of the Division, the 14th Brigade forming the rear-guard. We had not had much to eat the night before, or in fact the whole day, and as the rations had not come up during the night, the men had devilish little breakfast--nor we either.

We were told to requisition what we could from the country, but though St André and myself did our best, and rode on ahead of the Brigade, routing out the dwellers of the farmhouses and buying chickens and cheese and oats wherever possible, there was very little to be had.

August 26th 1914.

The Dorsets were hard at work putting Troisvilles into a strong state of defence, and were helped by some of our Divisional Sappers, I believe the 59th Co. R.E. (but it might have been the 17th).

There was a local French ambulance--civilian I think--in Troisvilles, and several of our own R.A.M.C. personnel there; but the Divisional ambulances were farther to the rear, and as the wounded began to come in from the right front we sent them back towards Reumont. St André was very useful in galloping backwards and forwards between Troisvilles and Brigade Headquarters--I kept him for that, as I wanted my proper staff for other staff work;

August 29th 1914.

At 6 P.M. we suddenly received orders to move at once to Carlepont, only three miles back, and began to move by the shortest and most unblocked way. Just when we were moving off I received orders to move the other way, but with the sanction of the Divisional Staff I preferred going my own way, and went it.

The detail of the map, however, turned out to be incorrect, and I found myself at the far, instead of the near, end of the village, with a lot of transport in the narrow street between ourselves and our billets. This was hopeless, and after a prolonged jam in the dark I gave it up, put the battalions on to the pavement and down a side street, and told them to bivouac and feed where they were.

Meanwhile St André had got a kind Frenchman to give the staff some dinner, but I misunderstood the arrangement and could not find the place; so I insisted on digging out some food from our cook's waggon on the wet grass of a little park we found. And there we ate it about midnight and went to sleep in the sopping herbage. I fear my staff were not much pleased with the arrangement.

September 1st 1914.

We halted about Ormoy Villers station--in ruins almost, and with its big water-tank blown up,--and I put two battalions to guard the flank whilst the rest of us had a meal. Saint André had as usual managed to forage for us in the ruins, and produced a tin of sardines and some tomatoes and apples, which, with chocolate and biscuits and warm water--it was another roasting day--filled us well up.

October 26th 1914.

Next morning I rode out again to Givenchy to see Ballard and my fresh French troops; for the 6/285th (Captain Gigot), the 5/290th (Commandant Ferracci--a typical little Corsican and a good soldier), and a squadron of Chasseurs à Cheval had arrived to strengthen us, besides the three batteries aforesaid (under Commandant Menuan). The 2/70th (now under Captain de Ferron) and the 6/295th (lately under Baron d'Oullenbourg, now wounded; I have, I fear, forgotten his successor's name) were, of course, also under me; so I had a nice little command now of three English and four French battalions, four English and three French batteries, and a French squadron. St André as liaison officer was of the greatest possible use to me, being both tactful and suggestive as to dealing with my new command, and keeping up splendid communication.

November 11th 1914

The shelling continued till 10. It was on this morning that Brown was damaged and lots of windows blown in.

About that time I saw, to my consternation, a number of British soldiers retiring towards the walled garden. I sent out at once to stop them and turn them back, thinking they were Cheshires or Bedfords. To my relief they were neither, but belonged to a brigade on our right. They had been heavily shelled, and, though in no sort of panic, were falling back deliberately, though without orders. There were no officers with them--all killed or wounded, I believe. .....  A number of Zouaves and some more troops also trickled slowly back from the left with stories of appalling losses (mostly untrue) and disaster to the trenches (ditto). They were also stopped--the Zouaves by St André--and sent back. Certainly the
Frenchmen's nerve was not damaged, for I remember that several had playing-cards in their hands, and when they got to what they considered a fairly quiet spot they stopped, sat down, and went on with their game.

November 20th 1914.

We spent our day somewhat uncomfortably in the dug-out, for there was a hard frost and very little room to turn round in, and though we had a brazier, its charcoal fumes in the confined space nearly poisoned us. In the middle of the day three French officers turned up, and we made mutual arrangements for the taking over by them of this portion
of the line, Milling (of the Bedfords) guiding one party and St André the other.

Mid December 1914.

Our mess had only had one change since the beginning of the war, and that was in the signal officer. Cadell had gone sick in November, and Miles had replaced him in December. For about a month, including all the period at Ypres, we had had no signal officer (except Naylor for two days), nor any Brigade-Major from about the 12th November (at Ypres) till the beginning of December; so Sergeant King, a first-rate signaller, though not the senior, had carried on for Cadell, and Moulton-Barrett had added the duties of Brigade-Major to his own. But by the middle of December we were complete again. Weatherby had returned from his sick leave, and Miles, of the K.O.S.B.'s, was now signalling officer. ......Moulton-Barrett was still Staff Captain--very hard-working and conscientious, and very thorough; Weatherby was still Brigade-Major--keen and resourceful; Beilby was still veterinary officer--capable and
helpful; and St André was still interpreter and billeting officer--cheerful and most willing. His duties were mostly to investigate the numerous cases of natives who wanted to go somewhere or do something--generally to fetch their cows off a shell-swept field, or to rescue their furniture from a burnt village, or to fetch or buy something from Bailleul--and recommend them (or otherwise) to me for passes--a most trying duty, wearing to the temper; but he was angelic in patience, and, as a light recreation, used to accompany me
to the trenches fairly often.

One case there was where, for three nights running, great fids of wire were cut out of some artillery cables connecting them with their observers--a most reprehensible deed. So I had patrols out to spy along the lines,--no result, except that next morning another 100 yards had gone. So I made St André publish a blood-and-thunder proclamation threatening death to any one found tampering with our wires. Spies were plentiful, and a gap in our wires might be fatal.

And then the culprit owned up. It was an old woman near whose cottage the wires passed, and her fences required mending.

Cheers,
Peter

Crikey, Peter! Thanks!!

Did you type all that out for me?!

Whether you did or not, this is immense and exactly what I was hoping for. Saint-André is one of the people I've had trouble pinning down to a specific individual but there's plenty of detail here that should help pin him down and detail that I hadn't seen. 

This is the 'gold standard' for source info I'm looking for. Thanks again.

Best wishes,

Bryn

[Bryn_Hammond]

3 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

There is a village outside of Paris associated with Van Gogh. I believe this individual was born there, to a British mother. Harold is not a name that I associate with Frenchmen. 
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/2315109

With regard to the francophone forum, DeepL and Google Translate are useful for translating. I'm rusty these days, my written accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, and I usually have a nightmare manually copying and pasting letters with accents. They are generally a friendly bunch.

One less told story is that of men associated with the Channel Isles who served in the French armed forces. Maurice Allix (1872-1952) served as an interpreter.

There's an interesting, and as yet untold story about the son of the French Consul, Ernest Amand Santiago Adolphe DENIS DE TROBRIAND. I think he enlisted in the Foreign Legion in the interwar period, under an assumed surname of O'Brien.

 

 

 

Thanks again, Keith

I have a lot on Denis de T as the attached shows. Quite an individual who seems to have got progressively more 'awkward' as he got older esp. after the war. 

I'll check out the other references though. So, thank you once again. 

Bryn

[Bryn_Hammond]

1 minute ago, Bryn_Hammond said:

Thanks again, Keith

I have a lot on Denis de T as the attached shows. Quite an individual who seems to have got progressively more 'awkward' as he got older esp. after the war. 

I'll check out the other references though. So, thank you once again. 

Bryn

Coming back right away on this.

Pierre Charles Harold Lavielle is another goodie! Thank you!

[PRC]

5 minutes ago, Bryn_Hammond said:

Did you type all that out for me?!

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22074

15th Infantry Brigade included the 1st Norfolks hence my initial interest in this source and why I downloaded a copy back in 2010. However reading through it at the time I couldn't help notice how much St André did and wondering just how much the norm this was for an interpreter. There may be a fuller name in the 15th Infantry Brigade War Diary for the period.

In posting in this thread it also raises the question in my mind - would French Army liasion officers \ interpreters be attached below Brigade level on anything more than an adhoc level - particularly when the war settled down to static trench fighting?

I don't think I've ever come across a reference to one in an infantry battalion war diary - but then I wouldn't particularly be looking.

Cheers,
Peter

[Keith_history_buff]

12 minutes ago, Bryn_Hammond said:

Coming back right away on this.

Pierre Charles Harold Lavielle is another goodie! Thank you!

There's a few more that you may be able to pick up, including a Frenchman of Irish aristocratic ancestry who participated in the Olympics!
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/searchlives/interpreter Keith1947/filter/?page=3

[Bryn_Hammond]

1 minute ago, PRC said:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22074

15th Infantry Brigade included the 1st Norfolks hence my initial interest in this source and why I downloaded a copy back in 2010. However reading through it at the time I couldn't help notice how much St André did and wondering just how much the norm this was for an interpreter. There may be a fuller name in the 15th Infantry Brigade War Diary for the period.

In posting in this thread it also raises the question in my mind - would French Army liasion officers \ interpreters be attached below Brigade level on anything more than an adhoc level - particularly when the war settled down to static trench fighting?

I don't think I've ever come across a reference to one in an infantry battalion war diary - but then I wouldn't particularly be looking.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter, 
Thanks for the link. Good question. My initial impression is along the lines of your ad hoc suggestion, but I think 'specific to specific operations or tasks' is where I feel the evidence is leading. I particularly want to look at Fifth Army units early 1918 when they are taking over more of the line from the French and are expected to co-operate in the event of a German attack. We know how that worked out!

Thanks again,

Bryn

[Bryn_Hammond]

5 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

There's a few more that you may be able to pick up, including a Frenchman of Irish aristocratic ancestry who participated in the Olympics!
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/searchlives/interpreter Keith1947/filter/?page=3

Thanks for the link again. I had picked out a few from Lives with a similar search (not the 'Keith' part ) but will check these against those I have.

Bryn

[Keith_history_buff]

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=133994&hilit=interpretes#p133994

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=128626&hilit=interpretes#p128626
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=97630&hilit=interpretes#p97630
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=203536&hilit=interpretes#p203536

Charlie knows about this:
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=518942&hilit=interpretes#p518942

[David26]

Bryn,

Here is one, very brief, mention of an interpreter:

H Malatier was a French interpreter attached to 58 Brigade RFA who was taken ill with valvular disease of the heart and so was taken by No. 31 Ambulance Train on 3 November 1916 from Contay to Rouen where he arrived the following day. (Source TNA file ref MH 106/2072). 

David.

[Bryn_Hammond]

51 minutes ago, David26 said:

Bryn,

Here is one, very brief, mention of an interpreter:

H Malatier was a French interpreter attached to 58 Brigade RFA who was taken ill with valvular disease of the heart and so was taken by No. 31 Ambulance Train on 3 November 1916 from Contay to Rouen where he arrived the following day. (Source TNA file ref MH 106/2072). 

David.

Thanks, David

Another one to get my teeth into.

Bryn

[PRC]

@Bryn_Hammond

I don't know if these snippets from The Times in 1914 add anything - if only some possible names to follow up.

The Times Friday September 11th 1914 The Charge of the 9th Lancers

Letourey also appears in some subsequent reports as Letourez.

The Times Wednesday October 7th 1914 A Tribute to the British

The Times Friday October 9th 1914 Heavy Losses in French Interpreter Corps  - although I suspect the reason given should be taken with a large pinch of garlic

 

The Times Thursday December 3rd 1914 Baron de Gunzburg

All four images courtesy The Tines Digital Archive.

Cheers,
Peter

[David26]

11 hours ago, Bryn_Hammond said:

Thanks, David

Another one to get my teeth into.

Bryn

Bryn,

just one more from me.  These are extracts from my transcript of the diary of Percy Whitehouse, a signaller in the RFA, courtesy of the Imperial War Museum (Private papers of P Whitehouse, Catalogue Number: Documents 13108):

[This first extract comes from just after Percy's unit, 8th (Howitzer) Bde RFA, had arrived at Le Havre in August 1914]

"The welcome the French gave us was tumultuous, they offered us all sorts of drinks, biscuits and chocolate etc. it was all very exciting.  Our H.Q. got together near a dockside shed where two elderly Frenchmen in uniform joined us.  They were artillery reservists of mature years and became attached to us as interpreters, one was an officer the other an N.C.O.  I was detailed to look after the officer whose name was Lapolay and he informed me that he owned a millinery establishment in Paris.  He was very friendly and apparently eager to make contact with our enemy."

 

[This second extract is from a couple of weeks later after the brigade had retreated from Le Cateau and had arrived at a town called Noyon]

"I mentioned earlier that we were allotted two French interpreters when we landed at Le Havre.  Well the officer had not been seen since Le Cateau, he made some excuse about getting lost but I really believe that he was scared, got the wind up and scooted off for safety, then found his way to join us at his convenience.  He came to me and was most apologetic, offering all sorts of excuses.  The funny thing was, nobody seemed to have missed him among all the confusion of retreat.  Anyhow he asked to accompany him [sic] to a house where he had evidently billeted himself, and introduced me to the family, a mother and father and one daughter.  I was invited to join them for supper and I enjoyed some excellent soup.  This interpreter told me he was staying there that night and implored me to be sure to rouse him as soon as the order to move on was known.  I agreed to do so after ascertaining where he had placed his horse.  We were up and about early and I managed to have a shave and clean up a bit.  I also unwound my puttees and found many particles of coal grit embedded in my calves, which had worked their way in when we did the digging on the slag heap near Mons.

That halt and rest did us the world of good and we felt much better for it.  My interpreter friend came to me that day and asked how much he owed me, I suppose he thought I was a kind of batman to him.  I said I did not want payment but he pressed twenty francs into my hand so I accepted in the right spirit, I still thought he was a bit of a fraud, but he wasn’t a young man and couldn’t help being a bit windy."

 

Good luck in your enterprise and if you are ever able to identify H Malatier or Lapolay, then I'd be really pleased to hear anything that you might find.

David.

[Keith_history_buff]

This interpreter was attached to the 9th Lancers. He has a CWGC gravestone. For some reason, Frenchmen from WW1 commemorated by the CWGC are no longer recorded in their database. 

For whatever reason, this cavalryman had an aptitude in English, and appears to have been on secondment from 6ème Régiment des chasseurs à cheval

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/7688057

 

[David26]

16 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

This interpreter was attached to the 9th Lancers. He has a CWGC gravestone. For some reason, Frenchmen from WW1 commemorated by the CWGC are no longer recorded in their database. 

For whatever reason, this cavalryman had an aptitude in English, and appears to have been on secondment from 6ème Régiment des chasseurs à cheval

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/7688057

 

That's interesting.  A Maréchal des logis is a Sergeant, so seemingly not the Vicomte de Vauvineux mentioned above who was killed that same day and also said to be attached to the 9th Lancers.  However, LoWW1 have the vicomte as attached instead to a different regiment in that brigade, the 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards, though was also apparently on secondment from the 6ème Régiment des Chasseurs à cheval:

Life story: Henri Robert Abel Pottin De Vauvineux | Lives of the First World War (iwm.org.uk)

[Neill Gilhooley]

Rather meagre... 9th Royal Scots:

Soon after arrival 1 March 1915 L'Abeele: 'We trudged along, Colonel and an interpreter at the head on horses.' [p.49 Springer & Humphreys (editors), ‘Private Beatson’s War’, 2009]

Of course, the 15th and 34th Divisions were under French direction for part of 1918. For 1st August 1918 a platoon of ‘B’ Coy was assigned as liaison with the French 54th regiment on the right. From the liaison platoon only two men returned [Ewing, John, 'The Royal Scots, 1914-1919', Oliver and Boyd, 1925 ]

I cannot recall the details, of possible use... Gibson, Craig, ‘Behind the Front: British Soldiers and French Civilians’, 2014

AA Gordon, Messenger to King of the Belgians https://aagordon.be/ and https://neillgilhooley.com/9th-royal-scots/index/ 

Edited 11 December , 2023 by Neill Gilhooley

[Bryn_Hammond]

On 05/12/2023 at 16:02, Neill Gilhooley said:

Rather meagre... 9th Royal Scots:

On arrival February 1915: the Colonel and an interpreter ahead on horseback [Springer & Humphreys (editors), ‘Private Beatson’s War’, 2009]

Of course, the 15th and 34th Divisions were under French direction for part of 1918. For 1st August 1918 a platoon of ‘B’ Coy was assigned as liaison with the French 54th regiment on the right. From the liaison platoon only two men returned [Ewing, John, 'The Royal Scots, 1914-1919', Oliver and Boyd, 1925 ]

I cannot recall the details, of possible use... Gibson, Craig, ‘Behind the Front: British Soldiers and French Civilians’, 2014

AA Gordon, Messenger to King of the Belgians https://aagordon.be/ and https://neillgilhooley.com/9th-royal-scots/index/ 

Thanks, Neil

Delayed in replying by trying to craft a french post for the forum Keith 'advertised' this on! It's taken me ages!

This is just the kind of ephemeral reference that's as valid as a detailed account. Thanks and I have Craig Gibson's book - I'm a big fan of it.

Bryn

[Bryn_Hammond]

 

On 04/12/2023 at 21:56, David26 said:

Bryn,

Here is one, very brief, mention of an interpreter:

H Malatier was a French interpreter attached to 58 Brigade RFA who was taken ill with valvular disease of the heart and so was taken by No. 31 Ambulance Train on 3 November 1916 from Contay to Rouen where he arrived the following day. (Source TNA file ref MH 106/2072). 

David.

This one has eluded me so far. If you glean any other info, David, please let me know.

Bryn

[Bryn_Hammond]

On 05/12/2023 at 01:05, PRC said:

@Bryn_Hammond

I don't know if these snippets from The Times in 1914 add anything - if only some possible names to follow up.

The Times Friday September 11th 1914 The Charge of the 9th Lancers

Letourey also appears in some subsequent reports as Letourez.

The Times Wednesday October 7th 1914 A Tribute to the British

The Times Friday October 9th 1914 Heavy Losses in French Interpreter Corps  - although I suspect the reason given should be taken with a large pinch of garlic

 

The Times Thursday December 3rd 1914 Baron de Gunzburg

All four images courtesy The Tines Digital Archive.

Cheers,
Peter

Thanks, Peter!

All helpful! 

Bryn

[David26]

One more brief mention for you Bryn.

When 133 (Howitzer) Brigade RFA was broken up, their interpreter called Contant, was attached instead to 59 Brigade RFA on 27 November 1916.  Both units were part of 11th (Northern) Division.

David.