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diverden

help please

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diverden

if this is the wrong place for this I apologies but I can not find anywhere else to put it ,can any one tell me anything about this photo I know the soldier in the center is my grandfather  FRANK HOWSE csm acting's rsm of the 1/5th South Staffordshire regiment ,if anyone can identify what is happening and were and who the other  soldiers and officers are , thanks in anticipation

61358283_611567492657967_5541024002484469760_n.jpg

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johnboy

As they all seem to be wearing medal ribbons I would think pic was taken sometime after 1920 " men seem to be carrying the colours. perhaps returning them somewhere for safe keeping?

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jay dubaya

Agree with johnboy in that it looks like the return of the regimental colours

 

Jon

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diverden

thanks for you help gents

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Gardenerbill

Officer on the left has cuff rank unusual for post war.

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Old Owl
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gardenerbill said:

Officer on the left has cuff rank unusual for post war.

He was most probably a late commission for WW1 and picked up the tunic top cheap from a Military Tailor or another officer.  He appears to be wearing ribbons for possibly an MC and Trio

and also may have 4 o/seas service chevrons on his right forearm.

The Sgt between the flag bearers has a wound stripe on his left forearm and wears ribbons for the BWM and VM, also the officer 2nd from right (Capt) is wearing ribbons for the MC,BWM & VM.

The officer on the extreme right also appears to be wearing the ribbons for an MC and Trio and the left hand flag bearer (SNCO?) appears to have an MC, BWM & VM.

An interesting photo and one which could possibly be researched further from the medal ribbons on show. 

Edited by Old Owl

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rolt968

The King's Colour has no battle honours. The (ten?) selected WW1 Battle Honours for the regiment would have been added to the King's Colour some time post WW1. I wonder if there is a record of when they were attached. I suspect that it took quite a long time  - mostly the process of deciding which battle honours were awarded to the regiment and then selecting the ten for the colours. (When I started this I thought that this would narrow down the date a lot - alas not as much as I thought at first.)

 

Other possible occasions:

Was there an equivalent of the Victory Parade at the end of WW2.

Almost the opposite of the original (although I think that is a possibility): recovering the colours from somewhere they had been left for safekeeping.

The equivalent of the modern home-coming parade.

 

Can anyone account for the laurel wreaths?

RM

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kenf48

The Lichfield Mercury dated 31 October 1924 noted that ‘The Great War battle honours are being emblazoned on the colours of the South Staffordshire Regiment and North Staffordshire Regiment.  A small allowance is being made to the Territorial battalions to cover the cost of the emblazoning of the honours on their colours.”

 

The same newspaper reported on the 28th November the impressive ceremony at Lichfield Cathedral when the 4th Battalion colours which had been lodged in the Cathedral since the war began were paraded before being lodged in the Garrison Church at Whittington Barracks.

 

The 5th Battalion held a similar ceremony at Walsall Parish Church though the account published in the Staffordshire Advertiser on the 22nd November is less extensive.  Does however note that the colours of the battalion -the regimental colours containing 29 battle honours and the King’s colour bearing the ten battle honours gained in the Great War- were taken into the church where they remained until the conclusion of the service.

 

The account does not say what happened next but presumably they too were lodged at the Barracks with those of the 4th Battalion.  As the colours had only just been awarded this seems the most likely event.

 

Perhaps someone who knows Walsall can identify the building.

Perhaps the laurel wreaths were acknowledging the 'victories' the first time they were paraded?

 

Ken

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diverden

wow thank you very much for the information you have all been a grate help , the Sargent is Frank howse 200540 csm /a rsm I know he was awarded the DCM  and silver War badge but do not know what the bwm or vm is.den

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johnboy
Posted (edited)

The sargeant seems to be wearing a wound stripe which would tie in with Silver war badge.

Edited by johnboy

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kenf48
3 hours ago, diverden said:

wow thank you very much for the information you have all been a grate help , the Sargent is Frank howse 200540 csm /a rsm I know he was awarded the DCM  and silver War badge but do not know what the bwm or vm is.den

BWM - British War Medal

VM    - Victory Medal essentially the two  'War Medals" (See LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/ )

British War Medal riband approved April 1919, but not to be worn or issued until authorised by the War Office.

First 250 miles of riband issued 4 August 1919

Preliminary issue Victory Medal riband announced December 24 1919 (applicants for BWM need not apply!).

 

So this dates the photograph initially to post 1920, and the award of the King's Colours to post November 1924.  In other words this was a commemoration at an early 'Armisticetide', as suggested above in the 1920's.

 

The problem with this date is that Frank Howse was discharged with a SWB on the 5th December 1919.  His DCM was announced in the London Gazette on the 11th March 1920 for actions from the 28th September 1918.  

The question is did he rejoin the TA when it was formed following the reorganisation in 1920?

 

I think it might be useful to dig around local records.

 

Ken

 

 

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diverden

thank you so much Ken and everyone else for all the information ,it has been a great help .                                                                                                                                                      den

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Cheshire22

Didn’t the colours of the regiments who parade in the London for the Victory Parade had a laurels, places on them.  

 

I would say it’s a Colour Party for the London Victory Parade 

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rolt968
1 minute ago, Cheshire22 said:

Didn’t the colours of the regiments who parade in the London for the Victory Parade had a laurels, places on them.  

Thank you. That was what I was wondering. I have been looking for photos and films of the parade since my last post. So far frustrating - no pictures of colour parties found so far!

RM

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Cheshire22
4 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Thank you. That was what I was wondering. I have been looking for photos and films of the parade since my last post. So far frustrating - no pictures of colour parties found so far!

RM

 

2B967B79-3758-4E7F-9946-58D4F60DD30D.jpeg

I’ve not found individual colour parties 

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rolt968

Many thanks. That confirms my suspicions. I agree that the Victory Parade is the most likely event.

Can anyone identify the buildings in the original photo as anywhere related to the Victory Parade? (Assembly Place, Dispersal?

RM

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kenf48
Posted (edited)

Possibly Horse Guards Parade many buildings in Whitehall have similar stone work but few have the arched windows. One exception, Treasury Building corner of Great George Street

 

Ken

Edited by kenf48

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GraemeClarke
diverden
3 hours ago, GraemeClarke said:

hi Graeme ,thats fantastic thank you so much it has helped me enormously and a big thank you to all the other people for your help.                                                                                     Dennis  

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diverden

it looks very much like him.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

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