Pte. William [Bruce] Stewart, Black Watch. Incomplete and Inaccurate Information on Pension Cards!

[rolt968]

I think I now have the solution to a long term mystery, but I would be glad if colleagues would give me their views of my reasoning:

What I have always known:

1. William [Bruce] Stewart was born on 10 January 1899

2. In February and March of 1916 he was serving with 2nd 4/5(amalgamated) Black Watch

3. He died on 11 November 1918 of phthisis pulmonalis and tubercular disease of the hip at Noranside Sanatorium, Fern, Angus. It gives his occupation as farm servant.

4. Against his entry in the  burial register of Lochlee churchyard it says "Soldier" in brackets.

5. He is commemorated on the Lochlee War Memorial.

I have been stumped until I found this Pension Ledger entry today.

I have checked. No Willliam Stewart died in Fern parish in 1919. Have they got the death wrong by a year?

 

There are MRIC, Medal Roll, SWB Register and SWB Index Card on ancestry (I am indebted to Barbara from the In From the Cold forum for pointing them out as a possibility two years ago).

a. S/43346, 1 Black Watch was previously 2655, 5 Black Watch (Medal Roll)

b. He enlisted on 1 December 1914 and was discharged on 14 November 1917 aged 21, Para. B1, having served abroad. (All SWB Register)

 

I believe that this is the same man. He knocked two years off  added two years to his age when he enlisted and the date of death given above in red is wrong by a year.

 

What does anyone else think?

RM

 

Edited 9 January , 2022 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

There should be a war gratuity record for him, that may add extra details.

 

The large blue letter I printed on the card ties in with one of David's discoveries that indicates it refers to an Institution case - his address is shown as a sanatorium, so that ties in. What is interesting is the 'MS' in his reference number as I can't see that in any of David's excellent articles (unless I've missed it).

 

I notice that there was a change in the reference number from 1/MS/12650 to 1/D/18367 but what exactly that means at the moment I'm not sure.

Craig

[rolt968]

18 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

There should be a war gratuity record for him, that may add extra details.

 

The large blue letter I printed on the card ties in with one of David's discoveries that indicates it refers to an Institution case - his address is shown as a sanatorium, so that ties in. What is interesting is the 'MS' in his reference number as I can't see that in any of David's excellent articles (unless I've missed it).

 

I notice that there was a change in the reference number from 1/MS/12650 to 1/D/18367 but what exactly that means at the moment I'm not sure.

Craig

Thanks for the link

 

I've tried the Registers of Soldiers' Effects without success so far, but there may be some strange transcription or indexing.  I wonder if there is any significance in the large red "Two". With luck there may be more to come in Pension Cards and Ledgers

 

5 Black Watch enlistment register seems to have disappeared, but the Black Watch Archives have the registers for the regular battalions. That should tell me when he transferred  from 5 BW and may have more about his discharge.

 

When I first looked at the SWB register I was put off by the enlistment date. I am more convinced now I see his supposed date of birth. You may not look convincing you are a month short fifteen if you are trying to tell people you are eighteen or nineteen, but you might convince them that you were a month short seventeen.

 

RM

[ss002d6252]

Quote

I've tried the Registers of Soldiers' Effects without success so far, but there may be some strange transcription or indexing.  I wonder if there is any significance in the large red "Two". With luck there may be more to come in Pension Cards and Ledgers 

Not sure whether it's 'Two' with the T underlined or it's an I with something else written next to it.

 

Example from elsewhere

 

Craig

Edited 23 November , 2018 by ss002d6252

[David Tattersfield]

Chaps

 

Thanks for this. First of all, here's the ledger that's cross-referenced on the one shown at the top of this thread (the reverse of this is blank). 

 

To locate this, [ 1/D/18367 ]  the method used is as follows

 

In Fold 3; select  "UK WW1 Pension Ledgers and Index Cards 1914-1923"; then

Pension Record Cards; then

Pension Record Cards (this I think is an indexing error by Ancestry, the path at this stage should be via the PRC ledgers option, but let's put that to one side for the moment); then

Scotland (we know this because the the reference is prefixed by number "1"; then

Dependents (again we know this because of the letter "D" in the reference); then 

18300 - 18399 (being the 100 page range)

then scroll down to Stewart, William

 

I hope this helps

 

NEXT: the letter "I" that Craig refers to is almost certainly not going to be a reference to the Institutions cards I referred to in my article. The Institutions cards are a small section (half a drawer from memory) within the "widows and dependents " cards - this set of cards being for those children who had ended up in childrens home (ie because there were no living relatives willing to look after them).

 

I hope this makes sense. Challenges such as this are helping me to continue to 'get my head round' the complexities and nuances within this archive !!!

 

Regards

 

David 

 

[rolt968]

Thank you, David.

That's brilliant. That confirms it.

 

Thank you for the instructions for  the ledger page look up.

 

James Stewart (grandfather) would have been 81 in 1921. William was the seventh of eight children who were orphaned in 1904. James and his wife seem to have brought up the youngest four at least who were under ten in 1904. I don't think Dryburn exists any more, certainly not under that name.

 

It is interesting that the date and cause of death are wrong here as well.

 

William Stewart is buried in Lochlee churchyard, but his grave is not marked.

 

Also interesting; another underage soldier in 5 Black Watch.

 

[rolt968]

There is an interesting and frustrating fragment:

:

 

It is one of those fragments found in someone else's record in FMP. Unfortunately the right hand side is missing - no date or exactly what it is a list of.

RM

Edited 23 November , 2018 by rolt968

[Skipman]

Interesting. It might be worth searching Forces War Records and seeing if any of the other men/numbers give an indication of a certain day/month/year?

 

Mike

[rolt968]

16 minutes ago, Skipman said:

Interesting. It might be worth searching Forces War Records and seeing if any of the other men/numbers give an indication of a certain day/month/year?

 

Mike

Thanks Mike.

I will look.

Also thanks for the PM!

Edited 23 November , 2018 by rolt968

[charlie962]

Greenland is in CasList 1/9/17 as wounded, suggestin wounding c 1/8/17

McLeod     is in CasList 30/8/17

Edited 23 November , 2018 by charlie962

[rolt968]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Greenland is in CasList 1/9/17 as wounded, suggestin wounding c 1/8/17

McLeod     is in CasList 30/8/17

Thank you!

RM

[charlie962]

McLeod is in Hospital List 2/8/17 31 Ambulance Train, Dozingham to Treport. So date around 1/8 looks good

Edited 23 November , 2018 by charlie962

[David Tattersfield]

I should have added, regarding Craig's point here

4 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

What is interesting is the 'MS' in his reference number as I can't see that in any of David's excellent articles (unless I've missed it).

The answer to this is detailed here

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/articles/the-western-front-associations-pension-record-card-and-ledger-archive/

 

When I go on about the ledger indexing as follows... 

"The next part of the index from the disabled set is a one or two letter code. For those claimants who served in the army, the first letter is M (for Military) and the second letter is the first letter of the individual's surname. There then is a number which is the consecutive numbered page within the ledger.

Therefore we could have 1/MA/0001 for (theoretically) a soldier whose surname is 'Aardvark' who lived in Scotland. (The pages within each of these books were not pulled together alphabetically, so the use of the index cards (mentioned above) was vital to assist the clerks locate the ledgers.) Private Baa from the same region would be the first individual in the next sequence - numbered 1/MB/0001."

Edited 23 November , 2018 by David Tattersfield

[charlie962]

This detective work on the workings of the cards and ledgers is VERY impressive. Many thanks for your ongoing work. Charlie

[Guest]

Hi,

William Bruce Stewart was my 2nd cousin 2 x removed.

Just saw your post while searching any background on him. I have attached his Fern/Fearn death certificate from Scotland’s People. Hope this is still of interest and helpful.

[rolt968]

3 hours ago, Graememac said:

Hi,

William Bruce Stewart was my 2nd cousin 2 x removed.

Just saw your post while searching any background on him. I have attached his Fern/Fearn death certificate from Scotland’s People. Hope this is still of interest and helpful.

Thank you and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the death certificate. (I have actually had a copy for some time.) I have been researching William (and his brother John) for some years. They are both commemorated on the Loch Lee war memorial. As you may have gathered I think that William should have been commemorated by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, but so far I have not been able to get enough evidence.

Send me a personal message (referred to as PM on the forum) if you think I can help with information about William.

RM

Edited 7 March , 2021 by rolt968

[rolt968]

Since I haven't found enough evidence yet to present an "In from the Cold" case.

This is really an excuse to point out that he died 103 years ago today.

RIP, William.

RM

Edited 24 December , 2021 by rolt968

[David Elliott]

Hello Sir,

This is all very poignant and fascinating, indeed some very impressive detective work.I live and work in the glen and actually look after the Tarfside war memorial. I’ve often wondered about W Stewart and J Stewart.I wanted to find out more about them but never got far. The one clue I had was Dryburn. Dryburn certainly exists albeit a fairly forlorn ruin these days.

Do you have any information on J.Stewart?

Regards,

David Elliott (sapper)

[Guest]

Hi David, 

The brother of William Bruce Stewart, John Bruce Stewart was born 17 Nov 1893, Lethnot and Navar, Angus. I don’t have the exact record of his death but enclose an Ancestry record on the death of a J Stewart, who was buried/cremated at Don Communal Cemetery, Annoeullin, France. I also attach a photo of John.

Regards

Graeme

 

 

 

[rolt968]

13 hours ago, David Elliott said:

Hello Sir,

This is all very poignant and fascinating, indeed some very impressive detective work.I live and work in the glen and actually look after the Tarfside war memorial. I’ve often wondered about W Stewart and J Stewart.I wanted to find out more about them but never got far. The one clue I had was Dryburn. Dryburn certainly exists albeit a fairly forlorn ruin these days.

Do you have any information on J.Stewart?

Regards,

David Elliott (sapper)

Hello David

Welcome to the forum.

I have a lot of information on John and William Stewart (who were brothers) since I have been researching the men on the war memorial for some time. I will send you a personal message.

RM

[rolt968]

This is the file card for Wiliam Bruce's own pension:

For once it does have the correct date of death. I am posting it more for completeness than anything else!

I am sure he is an In From the Cold case and had hoped that the evidence would be in the pension cards and ledgers. Alas, so much is missing and there are so many errors.

I have searched using various possibilities and cannot find a Registers of Soldiers' Effects entry.

RM

Edit: I have just noticed something. What does SAN 2360 stand for?

Edited 9 January , 2022 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

This is the file card for Wiliam Bruce's own pension:

For once it does have the correct date of death. I am posting it more for completeness than anything else!

I am sure he is an In From the Cold case and had hoped that the evidence would be in the pension cards and ledgers. Alas, so much is missing and there are so many errors.

I have searched using various possibilities and cannot find a Registers of Soldiers' Effects entry.

RM

Edit: I have just noticed something. What does SAN 2360 stand for?

SAN is the pension issue office reference. They used their own reference rather than one used by the Award branch.

Craig 

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

This is the file card for Wiliam Bruce's own pension:

For once it does have the correct date of death. I am posting it more for completeness than anything else!

I am sure he is an In From the Cold case and had hoped that the evidence would be in the pension cards and ledgers. Alas, so much is missing and there are so many errors.

I have searched using various possibilities and cannot find a Registers of Soldiers' Effects entry.

RM

Edit: I have just noticed something. What does SAN 2360 stand for?

In theory there should be a war gratuity entry as he had died before it was introduced,  and so it couldn't have been paid on discharge (in which case there'd be no entry).

Retrospective cases should have been picked up and paid but it's not too uncommon to see them missed.

Craig