Proper salute protocol in BEF/CEF?

[sneakyimp]

Can anyone tell me the particulars of saluting protocol in the Canadian Expeditionary Force and the British Expeditionary Force in 1914? I'm curious about all the details (open hand vs. close hand, when to salute, and especially any instructions that would be given to new recruits or trainees). I tried googling it a bit and just found a hodge podge of links. Also, the wikipedia page on BEF salute protocol says that the right hand was not always used before 1917:

Since 1917, the British Army's salute has been given with the right hand palm facing forwards with the fingers almost touching the cap or beret. Before 1917, the salute was given with whichever hand was furthest from the person being saluted, whether that was the right or the left.^[3]. The salute is given to acknowledge the Queen's commission. A salute may not be given unless a soldier is wearing his regimental headdress, for example a Beret,Caubeen, Tom o'Shanter, Glengarray, field service cap or peaked cap. If a soldier or officer is not wearing headdress then he or she must come to attention instead of giving/returning the salute. The subordinate salutes first and maintains the salute until the superior has responded in kind.

The citation [3] merely refers to "General Jack's Diary ed by John Terraine" which I have purchased just now.

Also, I had seen a really cool video i think on Youtube some time ago about saluting protocol with original WWI footage but cannot seem to find it today.

[nigelcave]

I cannot lay my hands on it, but I think that you will find that Jack's diary gives the date for the change (ie the practice of saluting with the left hand) as about June 1918. It is a wry comment, as he reckons that the Germans will reckon that the British are unbeatable if the Army Council could worry about such trivia in the midst of the German 1918 offensive,

[Steven Broomfield]

I think (not sure) that the History of the Welsh Guards also mentions the demise of the left-hand salute at about the same time as General Jack.

[sneakyimp]

I'll have Jack's Diary soon.

So this book is a reliable source on this? I find it totally surprising that this is the first I've heard of it. Was kinda hoping there would be some way to corroborate it officially. Also, if anyone runs across that WWI saluting video...showed all kinds of saluting contexts and proper saluting protocol. Can't find it anywhere!

[nigelcave]

See Jack's diary entry for July 30th 1918 (p. 250 of the 1964 Eyre and Spottiswoode edition). I fail to see why he should be making it up - he does refer to an 'Army Order', which doubtless could be looked up.

[Chris Henschke]

Army Order 211 of 1918

[centurion]

I'm fairly sure I remember this topic being discussed before on the forum in some detail.

[centurion]

Yep here you go - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=172731entry1677657

[jhill]

In a previous life I may have posted a link to this, but I am afraid I cannot find it. It is a film at the National Film Board entitled "Canadian Training School in Bexhill". It depicts various aspects of the regime at the Cadet school at Bexhill-On-Sea. In part it looks like a training film. The on-line description about the saluting protocol bits goes like this:

"The sequence on saluting protocol – the paying of military compliments – presents five different scenarios and may have been used for instruction purposes. The first shows two officer cadets carrying swagger sticks (short thin canes) as they walk past a commissioned officer carrying an officer’s cane. As they pass, the cadets look left while saluting and offering a verbal greeting. The officer responds by turning his head left, saluting and answering their greeting. The second situation shows two cadets giving a “butt salute” – placing their right hand across their rifle butts – as they approach and pass a commissioned officer. The third scenario shows an armed party under the command of a sergeant acknowledging a passing commissioned officer. The sergeant orders an “eyes left” and salutes the officer, who returns the salute. The sergeant would only order “eyes left” (or right) if the passing officer is of field rank – i.e. a major or above.

In the fourth scenario, an officer passes a stationary group of soldiers. Under orders from their senior member, the group stands to attention and salutes. The fifth scenario shows a soldier who cannot salute because his hands are occupied. In this case, he gives an “eyes right” and offers a verbal greeting to the passing officer, who salutes and responds to the greeting. "

http://www3.nfb.ca/includes/player/player_full.php?_onfplr_sel=viewfull&film=id=531247&formats=default&speeds=default&use_cc=no&use_dv=no&f=flash&t=normal&s=hv&pm=rtmp%3A%2F%2Fflash.nfb.ca%2FWW1%2Ffilms%2Fhv%2F52412.flv&w=640&h=512&c=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.onf.ca%2Fenclasse%2Fgrandeguerre%2Ffr%2Fplayer%2Fplayer.css&pp=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.onf.ca%2Fenclasse%2Fgrandeguerre%2Ffr%2Fplayer%2Fplayer_full.swf&cn=grandeguerre&ct=2500000&ttl=Images+d%27une+guerre+oubli%E9e&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2F&lg=fr&ss=&pmvroot=%2Fvar%2Fnfb%2Fapache%2Fhtdocs%2Fphplib%2F&pmvurl=grandeguerre%2F&pmvsid=%2Fstats%2F&pmvpage=17&pmvglob=1

[sneakyimp]

bless you, jhill!

Based on your tip, I think I found the original site, which has videos of the CEF:

http://www3.nfb.ca/ww1/building-a-force-film.php?id=531247

[sneakyimp]

I am convinced the banishment of the left-handed salute by AO 211 is indeed what happened, but cannot for the life of me find any British Army Orders when googling. All I get is order-of-battle pages.

I recall as a child being roundly chastised by my older brother for not knowing all the particulars of a salute. He didn't know either but it still left me with the impression that there are a lot of subtleties in saluting and it varies a lot from country to country. One of these other posts recommended a book "Infantry Training" from 1914. I'm also wondering how, if not by book, this information might be imparted. By a sergeant angrily on the first day of training? Via leaflet?

Any links or input would be much appreciated -- especially if it relates to the CEF.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello sneakyimp

You will find them in the National Archives at Kew in these files:

WO 123 Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Army Circulars, Memoranda, Orders and Regulations 1711-1992

...

WO 123/56 Army orders (War Office) 1914

WO 123/57 Army orders (War Office) 1915

WO 123/58 Army orders (War Office) 1916

WO 123/59 Army orders (War Office) 1917

WO 123/60 Army orders (War Office) 1918

...

I don't think they are available online so a personal visit to Kew may be necessary.

Training in saluting would be given to recruits orally by their platoon sergeant or other NCOs. It would be based on the instructions in Infantry Training, backed up with such phrases as "longest way up, shortest way down."

The Royal Navy salutes with the palm down, the Army and the RAF with the palm to the front. There are regimental peculiarities such as whether the hand touches the headdress, whether the fingers are spread or held together, and the precise amount of "bounce" before the hand come to rest.

Ron

[sneakyimp]

Thank you, Ron, for your excellent post.

[ritterk]

I would refer you to that 'Dads Army' episode where the platoon is practicing saluting...it shows you all you need to know....'long way up...wiggle, wiggle..short way down'!!!!!

[sneakyimp]

I recently bought 'Infantry Training 1914' and am pleased to offer the following excerpt:

SQUAD--ATTENTION
Spring up to the following position:--
Heels together and in line. Feet turned out at an angle of about 45 degrees. Knees straight. Body erect and carried evenly over the thighs, with the shoulders (which should be level and square to the front) down and moderately back--this should bring the chest into its natural forward position without any training or stiffening. Arms hanging easily from the shoulders as straight as the natural bend of the arm, when muscles are relaxed, will allow, but with the thumbs immediately behind the seams of the trousers. Wrists straight. Palms of the hands turned toward the thighs, hands partially closed, backs of fingers touching the thigh lightly, thumb close to forefinger. Neck erect. Head balanced evenly on the neck, and not poked forward, eyes looking their own height and straight to the front.

The weight of the body must not be in any way be restricted, and no part of the body should be either drawn in or pushed out.

The position is one of readiness, but there should be no stiffness or unnatural straining to maintain it.

Particular attention should be paid to the heels being in line, as otherwise the man cannot stand square in the ranks.

Also:

SALUTE BY NUMBERS--ONE
Bring the hand smartly, with a circular motion, to the head, palm to the front, fingers extended and close together, point of the forefinger 1 inch above the right eye, or touching the edge of peak of cap just about right eyebrow as in illustration, thumb close to the forefinger; elbow in line, and nearly square, with the shoulder (see Plate I).

TWO
Cut away the arm smartly to the side

I'd provide the snappy illustration if this forum offered image uploads!

[sneakyimp]

Forgot to mention...the book also features an illustration of a dapper soldier saluting with his left hand

[sneakyimp]

Aha! I just discovered how to attach a file. Here's the plate from "Infantry Training 1914" depicting the left-handed salute

[sneakyimp]

I just have to say that General Jack's Diary is an excellent book! It's a real page-turner as WW1 history books go and gives an amazing day-by-day account of the retreat from Mons. So pleased to be reading it.