Jerusalem light railway

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to find some more information & photos about a light railway that was laid between Jerusalem and El-Bireh (North of Jerusalem) between May 1918 till September 1918. The British OH states that it was the most important light railway built in Palestine. Also there is a little about it in "The Advance of the EEF". There are several photos of the train in the collections of the library of the American congress and so far I found one photo in the Australian collection. Several air photos exist in the Bavarian Archive.

Even less known is the fact that there was another short light railway in Jerusalem, leading to Allenby Camp, Southern Jerusalem.

Any information, Photos etc. will help.

Thanks,

Eran

[ddycher]

Eran

Not a railway buff at all but have you tried reading through material on the following website ?

http://harakevetmagazine.com/

It was a big help for me when I was trying to get my head around the railway development during the campaign.

Regards

Dave

[James Dodds]

Dear Eran

My wife and I are working on a book from my Grandfathers letters and photographs . Tim Foster was in the Royal Engineers and was the first Station Master at Jerusalem I have photos of all the engines before and after the standard gauge track was laid, including the arrival of the six Baldwin 600mm gauge engines for the light railway to El-Bireh and the light railway goods yard at Jerusalem . i am making a track plan of Jerusalem station but have still to work out where the light railway leaves the area. i would be very grateful if you have any information as to the layout of track of the light railway. The books going to be called "Track in the Sand" before Jersualam Tim was in charge to the light railway at El Kebri and before that he was in Gollipoli.

[michaeldr]

This is a crop, of the 1:40,000 map produced by the 7th Field Survey Coy., RE, and dated 24th August 1918

I believe that it shows the light railway track making a large loop out toward Lifta and then back east again

before heading north (Y30a) and at the time of the survey it appears to run out just north of Shafat (Y17b)

 

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, James Dodds said:

i am making a track plan of Jerusalem station but have still to work out where the light railway leaves the area.

 

The above map appears to indicate it leaving the area of the station from a point just beneath the 'n' in Temple Colony

however I cannot vouch for the map's accuracy 

For the easy transfer of supplies between the two systems (standard/light) one would have thought that they would have used the same yard

whereas this implies a distance of c.500yds between the two

 

Edited 26 October , 2017 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

This is from a newspaper article in HaAretz - https://www.haaretz.com/jerusalem-light-rail-to-finally-get-on-track-after-101-years-1.366369

 

quote: ...the rail was described briefly by Walter (Pinhas ) Pick in a 1981 article in the journal, Kardom, and Ze'ev Vilnai mentioned it in his book on modern Jerusalem.
According to Pick, the rail system was built by Col. Jordan Bell, who commanded Rail Builders Company 272 of the British Engineering Corps [sic]. Some 850 laborers, Egyptians and local Arabs, worked on it; about half of them, Pick writes, were women.
The rail line traversed Jerusalem along a very winding route, apparently because the British wanted to avoid complex excavations and sharp inclines. The first station was at what is now the corner of Harakevet and Masaryk streets, from which the rail climbed through Talbieh along today's Hapalmah Street and down Harav Berlin Street.
From there, the line ran along the Valley of the Cross and today's Ben-Zvi Boulevard, past the hill where the Knesset now stands and the current location of the Jerusalem Convention Center, through Sanhedria, Givat Hamivtar and French Hill, and then northward to Shuafat and El-Bireh.

 

The site of the 'first station' (which could mean the terminus or goods yard) is given as today's corner of Harakevet and Masaryk streets

This seems to tie in with the info given on the August 1918 map above
see https://www.google.co.il/maps/place/Derech+HaRakevet+פינת+Masaryk,+Jerusalem‭/@31.7626997,35.2200226,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x15032825f3c00ce3:0xf7a14a1e0aa912dc!8m2!3d31.7629369!4d35.2213208

[James Dodds]

Thank you Michaeldr ,That great and fits in to where I thought the light railway began..

Just tried to attach a photo but can not seem to do it will have to reduce the file size

will send later.

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

The first station was at what is now the corner of Harakevet and Masaryk streets

 

By the way, Masaryk Street was named after the Czech Foreign Minister, however, Derek HaRakevet translates as The Railway Road

[James Dodds]

[Sjack91]

Good luck with the book! Should be very interesting going by the content of this topic! Any idea when it will be on sale?

 

regard 

 

Stuart

[nb2]

Very nice photo!

I believe it was taken here:

[James Dodds]

Thank you for this  Wonderful photograph, do you have a date for went it was taken ? the area under you arrow is the light railway yard that is shown in my earlier post .

I had just finished drawing out the track layout from the photographs taken my grandfather Tim Foster who was the Staion Master in Jerusalem between January and October 1918 and can now check it with this photograph. Any chance you could send my a higher resulution image to my email address   jamesfdodds@btinternet.com

Thank you James

[nb2]

That aerial photo is dated 15.8.18, sorry no higher resolution.

I will be happy to see your light rail album.

 

 

[James Dodds]

Thank you. Do You have a refrence to where the aerial photo comes from?

I let you know when we have finished putting it all together.

Thank you again

James

[nb2]

it's from the bavarian archive -

http://www.gda.bayern.de/findmittel/ead/index.php?fb=478

 

I wanted to put link to the original but seems that they removed the photos, I hope temporarily.

Anyway the photo number in the archive was 0805.

 

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, nb2 said:

but seems that they removed the photos, I hope temporarily.

 

That is a huge loss

The Bavarian archive was very useful in the study of this theatre

Like you, I hope that it is only temporary

 

[ifanlloyd]

At long last I been able to get back onto this thread.An amazing pic,5 Baldwin 2-6-0 steam tanks and 2 Simplex tractors.In the foreground a D class bogie wagon and then 2 F Class wagons.In the middle distance x2 H Class wagons. I have a diagram of the layout of Jerusalem station.You are more than welcome to a copy.Some where in the pic could be my Grand father,he was in the 98th Light Railway Co and served in Palestine from 1917.I have been researching his Great War records.

If you want more info you should get hold of copies of The Narrow Gauge magazine.There have been 4 articles by Iain Logie on the Light Railways of the Egyptian Expeditioary Force.

If I can help don't hesitate to get in touch.

[James Dodds]

I would love to see your track layout of Jerusalem Station.

Tim was developing his film and doing contact prints while in Egypt and Palistine. He did take lots of the people around him which I guess he gave to them to send home.

Sadly not many of the photographs have names on. 

There was somone he called "Shade" when Tim was with Royal Engineers  276th Light Railway Co, and another earlier a Lt Hopkins in El Kubri when he was with the 54th division Light Railway Staff (1/5 Suffolks) in charge of the Light railway to the trenches as part of the Defence Force. Tim has a list of names celebrating Christmas 1916 with a photograph. I will look out for a Lloyd.

Iain has kindly sent me digital copies of his articles.

thank you for your post and information

James

 

[ifanlloyd]

James

Will do.If you go to the search bar on this page and type in 98th Light railway Co.there quite a bit of info there.

Speak soon.

[James Dodds]

I do not seem to be able to access 98th Light railway Co. ?

[michaeldr]

Try this link as a start 

 

[James Dodds]

Does anyone know more about the crash when a Manning Wardle tank engine ran downhill from Jerusalem towards Bittir and collided at speed with LSWR train in 1918? Paul Cotterall (p30) writes in his book "The Railways of Palestine and Israel" about this crash and that the Tank engine possable being No.99.

I have in an October 1918  letter which talks of a crash, with a train from Jerusalem carrying 700 Turkish prisoners. I am trying to link these two accounts.

Edited 4 November , 2017 by James Dodds

[James Dodds]

Ifon Lloyd

I have just completed the layout diagraim of the tracks of Jerusalum station . I have been unable to see your diagraim but i am wondering if you can see on your diagram how the 60cm gauge Baldwin engines turned round ? The simplest way would be with a turning triangle but i can not see this in any of the photos.

[ifanlloyd]

James

Senior moments,can't find that track plan any where.Will carry on looking.

Correct there would have been a turning triangle,the Baldwins were prone to de-rail if they ran tender first.Can you see any sign of engine sheds any where? That wwould have been the logical place to have one.

[James Dodds]

Thank you for looking, if you find it, I would realy like to check my best guess as to the track layout (before my book goes to print), particually the 60cm lines which are so hard to see on the aerial photo.