FIGHTING THE RED BARON. Ch.4, 9pm. Friday 4th June.

[LowNslow]

Heading for the TV screens. A programme with which we assisted last year will finally see the light of day in the UK on Channel 4.

As the official press release explains: "Fighting the Red Baron follows two modern-day pilots as they face the same challenges the aviators of WW1 faced, in order to find out how aerial warfare changed so quickly in just four years. Andy Offer and Mark Cutmore are both Red Arrows pilots, the elite of the elite, hugely skilled pilots who served in RAF operations in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia respectively. In this film they fly original WW1 aircraft, and carry out the key challenges the plane took on in the course of WW1: photo reconnaissance, artillery ranging and bombing missions, all leading to a final classic dogfight in replica period aircraft kitted out with camera guns.

"Today in their extreme WW1 flying challenges, Andy and Mark test their flying skills to the limit and it is an exhilarating and surprising experience. They find that all the aspects of modern aerial warfare, from surveillance to artillery ranging, were already being refined by their pioneering counterparts almost a hundred years ago. Their journey charts the historical ‘big-bang’ moments of the race for aerial supremacy and reveals how, in just four years of war, aircraft were transformed from flimsy flying machines to the warplanes recognisable today. "

We were delighted to offer the use of the 'Biggles Biplane' hangar and several 'props' for filming at Sywell, including the 'Biggles Biplane' BE-2 replica and Paul Ford's Fokker DR-1 replica. There was also quite a bit of filming at Old Warden and Stow Maries airfields.

Should be interesting to see the finished article. Certainly the action shots seen so far look awesome!

More, pics etc. on www.biggles-biplane.com

[RobL]

Good preview clip here, spot forum member's Andrew Upton as a pilot and Air Mechanic Langham, me, at 00:24 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/fightin...irst-principles

[Andrew Upton]

Good preview clip here, spot forum member's Andrew Upton as a pilot and Air Mechanic Langham, me, at 00:24 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/fightin...irst-principles

Yay, hard to recognise myself sans specs

[IJDALLINGER]

Looks great. Some of it also filmed at Stow Maries. Looking forward to it.

[NigelS]

A short piece on the programme in the 'on-line' Daily Telegraph including some comments from the RAF pilots involved Click

NigelS

[AlanCurragh]

On (in the UK at least) in one hour from now....

[Steven Broomfield]

Yay, hard to recognise myself sans specs

Well if you put them on, you'd be able to see. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.

[Steven Broomfield]

So I can be the first to report my viewing experience?

Turned it off after 35 minutes, watched a bit more 20 minutes later and turned off again after 5.

I have no comment to make about the accuracy of the uniforms, etc, but the tone of the programme irritated me beyond belief. I've not heard of either of the historians, but the bloke was annoying and the woman gave the impression she was waiting for the cheque but really couldn't be too fussed about the rest.

As for the content; well, again it may have been spot-on accurate history, but seemed to have been made for an audience suffering severe Attention Deficit Disorder. I do not need to be told every three minutes that "modern day fighter pilots are recreating" something. I do not need a reminer every five minutes that war in the air in 1914 was new. I can remember these things.

If it had been cut to an hour, rather than 95 minutes it might have worked; as it was it was tedious, repetetitive and patronising.

[Seadog]

Regret that I went to sleep after about 15 minutes and switched off. Suggest that it is cut to 30 minutes. By the way who are all these expert "historians" who keep appearing these days in particular the female?. Why in the short bit that I saw did the producers deem it necessary to use that overworked cliché of non-drama? In this case the normal stopping of the Avro engine when landing. Camera shakes, voice expresses concern and then “this is quite normal”, reminded me of a flying version of “Ice Road Truckers”.

Regards

Norman

[Mark Hone]

I am afraid that the constant need to remind you of everything that has happened so far in the programme is a consequence of these things being repeated on digital channels where they have an ad break every five minutes. The other annoying feature of modern documentaries is the desire to persuade you that they are presenting 'startling new information' which has in fact been widely known for years. For example last week Bettany Hughes assured us in her usual wide-eyed fashion that 'Gosh, I can exclusively reveal that Thera/Santorini might have been the real Atlantis!' Not news to the Santorini tourist board, let alone the groves of academe. Next week: British motorists drive on the left! The Beatles were a very popular group in the 1960s! Tony Blair used to be the Prime Minister!

[AlanCurragh]

By the way who are all these expert "historians" who keep appearing these days in particular the female?

Perhaps it would be in order to remind pals that the historians on the program, either the "bloke" or the "female" may well be members of this forum. Informed criticism is fine, but done with respect please

Alan

[SiegeGunner]

I watched it right through and enjoyed it immensely - but that may have something to do with the fact that I acquired a Freeview HD box yesterday and it was the first complete programme I have watched in high definition.

The female historian is forum member Alexandra Churchill, aka Freddy 1918.

[salesie]

The repetitive nature of modern documentaries is somewhat annoying, but I did enjoy the programme nonetheless. And why the arrogant tone, Lads? I'm sure that neither of the historians will loose any sleep just because Broomers and Seadog have never heard of them.

Cheers-salesie.

[bantamforgot]

Alas the historical facts were not exactly correct re. the Red Baron & Lanoe Hawker VC,, the title was

misleading to say the least.

Colin.

[TonyE]

I am with Broomers here. Started watching but turned it off after about 45 minutes.

Beautiful aircraft but a rubbish programme...and no, the young lady did not bring a lot of feeling to the subject, ex forum member or not.

Regards

TonyE

[vectisitch]

well i enjoyed it because it was to do with our favourite topic.THE GREAT WAR.anything to do with that is ok with me. lets face it,anything is better than eastenders

[MartH]

I enjoyed it, better than all the other rubbish on TV. But I accept its entertainment not historical fact - bit like some of the posts we get on the forum.

[Pighills]

A link to watch it, for anyone who missed it (which includes me, due to my Sky playing up at the time!!): 'HERE'

[truthergw]

WW1 aircraft are a mystery to me so I had high hopes. Too many fairly basic historic errors for me to enjoy the programme as history but the aerobatics were O.K. The programme is what it is but I can't help feeling it could have been a lot better.

[PhilB]

Alas the historical facts were not exactly correct re. the Red Baron & Lanoe Hawker VC,,

For the uninitiated, in what way were they wrong, Colin?

[Steven Broomfield]

And why the arrogant tone, Lads? I'm sure that neither of the historians will loose any sleep just because Broomers and Seadog have never heard of them.

Cheers-salesie.

I don't think it's arrogant to say I've note heard of someone (I had never heard of the French/American lady who sculpted spiders until I read her obits this week); I daresay that the two people concerned won't worry about it. My point is that the young lady's presentation style wasn't good. Her history may be very sound, but she might need the presentation skills course.

I'm quite happy to disagree with anyone on this: I thought it was at least 30 minutes too long, extremely (and un-necessarily) repetative, scanty on real revelation, and aimed at a market which seems to lack the ability to retain facts for more than about 3 minutes. Standard TV documentary, really. My mistake was hoping for or expecting different.

Can't wait for the DVD with the extra bits they didn't have time to show on TV

[Krithia]

Well I am often ciritical but thought this program excellent and have watched it twice. The 'new' historians were refreshing to see and the recreations for once were very good. I personally would have preferred the little bit of padding and repeated lines, as mentioned above, to be reduced and more factual stuff added. Well done for those involved, including Alexandra, Taff and Andrew etc.

9/10 for Channel 4, bring on some more!

[salesie]

I don't think it's arrogant to say I've note heard of someone (I had never heard of the French/American lady who sculpted spiders until I read her obits this week);

I used the phrase "arrogant tone", Broomers, which places you saying that you'd never heard of her into the context of your whole post. Just the impression I got.

Cheers-salesie.

[Mark Hone]

I didn't comment on the programme itself in my earlier post. Overall I thought it was pretty good, and it was nice to see the real planes in action rather than just CGI mock-ups. A bit repetitive in places (in line with all modern TV documentaries) but I found out quite a lot I didn't know before. I started watching it assuming it was part of a series and an hour long but stuck with it to the end when I realised it wasn't! A friend of mine on Bury market , who has an interest in World War One but is by no means an anorak (or greatcoat), remarked spontaneously to me this morning how much he had enjoyed it.

[Steven Broomfield]

I hadn't intended to be 'arrogant', and if that's the way my post came across, I'll apologise. Arrogant is one thing I would hope never to be.