jg2294 Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 I have been researching my Gt Grandfather L/Cpl Charles Stuart 23067 9th Royal Scots killed at The High Wood, Somme 22/7/16. All our family believed the person in the above photograph was him, having his photo taken on a horse. However, I took the photograph with me to the Somme commemeration events on 1st July this year and it opened up a can of worms when a historian advised it was possibly a pre war photo circa 1908-10 or so. The person in photo is definitely a descendant but who? I believe it may be a cavalryman of 6th Inniskilling Dragoons due to shape of badge, which is not very clear even on the original photograph (The Scots Dragoons say it is not them as the horse is not grey and dont believe the badge is the same squareish shape as theirs). I also believe the photograph may have been taken at Piershill Barracks, Edinburgh where the 6th Inniskillings had a history of being stationed. The building was demolished in 1934 so I cant go there. I have a couple of photos of the barracks , but inconclusive to say that building is the one in the backgound of my own photo. If anyone can help confirm the uniform is that of 6th Inniskilling Dragoons (whether pre war or not) I would be grateful. Any photos of the regiment, Piershill Barracks would also be welcome. I also think the hilt of his sword is very similar to the 1908 Pattern Cavalry Trooper's Sword, if anyone can help me here it may go some way to placing a closer date as to when the photo was taken. Any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 There is nothing to confirm the regt other than the cap badge. However he is definately not you man while he was serving with the RScots (no Scottish headgear or kilt for starters!) so either he was in the cavalry before hand or this is another relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Will need to take a closer look once downloaded, but is it possible that it could be Royal Scots Greys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Hi, Looks a bit like King Edward's Horse, The Overseas Dominions Regiment? Just a thought. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Well I downloaded it and it blurs on enlarging - but certain lttle features during the process convince me it "Grey's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 I suspect it is Greys. The wings are high on the eagle and the head turned to one side so with blurring it could appear square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Well I downloaded it and it blurs on enlarging - but certain lttle features during the process convince me it "Grey's". I'd tend to agree, but do tell what the 'little features' are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg2294 Posted 23 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Thanks for the very quick replies, I 've included part of the response I received from Royal Scots Dragoons, they are discounting any involvement with them: Thank you for sending us the photograph of him in uniform riding on a horse. If he had been serving in the Second Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) which is what the Regiment was styled from 1877-1921, he would have been riding a grey horse. The cap badge, though indistinct, appears too square to be that of the Second Dragoons. Hopefully I will get to the bottom of this as it's driving me mad. I can remember the photograph in my Grandfather's room when he stayed with us about 45 years ago and I am sure he said the man ( his Father in Law) was killed at The Somme as I always thought that so when the picture resurfaced a few years ago I was told it was Charles Stuart. So he either had earlier service in Cavalry and re-enlisted in 1914 as an Infantryman or its someone from my Grandfather's own side of my family tree. Thanks to all once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Hi All, As all pointers point away from the Scots Greys, see 1st post, I go back to the possibility of it being King Edward's Horse. This unit was raised as part of the Imperial Yeomanry in 1901 and after various changes it finally was renamed King Edward's Horse in 1910, this would fit in with the comment that the photo was earlier ie 1908-1910, also the bandolier over the shoulder looks correct? Any comments or contradictions? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 As the KEH was a London raised unit composed largely of ex-colonials, he was a long way from Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-ted Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 I suspect Royal Scots Greys. See link for comparison. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/gallery/b...goon_guards.htm Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 November , 2009 Share Posted 23 November , 2009 Hi Max, Many, many Colonials were from Scotland originally, so it seems he could fit the bill perfectly? John, I think that the Scots Greys have been heavily discounted? see previous posts! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg2294 Posted 24 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2009 Thanks for the posts, I can't really go back to Scots Dragoons as they said it can't be a Scots Grey because horse is not grey and it's not a Scots Dragoon because they don't think the badge is same square shape. I have had an email from The cavalry museum in York and they are suggesting it is 6th Inniskilling Dragoons, but I did suggest that to them in my original email. I have no knowledge of any descendants staying in London area, they came from Edinburgh or Leith with my Gt Grandmother Stuart hailing from Dumbarton. My 85 year old mum originally went along with suggestion it was Charles Stuart in the photo however she is not so sure now and it may be from the Gardiner side of my family, perhaps my Gt Grandfather or even Gt Gt Grandfather. Any thoughts on his sword to perhaps date the photo? Nearest I can see is 1908 Troopers sword but the hilt doesn't quite look right. Who would have thought a trip to the Somme would have opened up this can of worms, the photo has pride of place in my livingroom so I have to know who he actually is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 24 November , 2009 Share Posted 24 November , 2009 I'm still sure he's RSG and although the horses used by them prior to and early in the War were grey, they may have had to take any old nag as the war progressed. There's also the chance the photo may have been taken at a Reserve Cavalry Depot, where all types of horse would be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 24 November , 2009 Share Posted 24 November , 2009 Bit dark to judge but I wonder if he has an early war simplified jacket. http://www.4thgordons.com/I-Spybook%20of%20Uniforms1.2.pdf Must say his facial hair is very pre war/early war Army. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 November , 2009 Share Posted 25 November , 2009 I think it's RSG too and just thought I'd post this to show that not all RSG horses were greys........ http://digital.nls.uk/pageturner.cfm?id=74548852 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg2294 Posted 25 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2009 I really appreciate everyone's ongoing suggestions. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg2294 Posted 2 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2009 At last I have found out who this is!! Thanks to everyone who has viewed and replied to this thread I can now advise that I have solved the riddle. The man is definitely my Gt Grandfather Charles Stuart, with great thanks to www.ancestry.co.uk I found the above enlistment paper which tied in perfectly with family background in that there was always a Dumbarton connection. The age was correct as was the occupation and after close examination I found the amendment to his service number from 9742 to RS 23067 ( his service number when he was killed) He had in fact originally joined the 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys). I now have almost 30 pages of various service forms, including a request from the recruitment officer at Dumbarton to allow him to serve with his brothers in Royal Scots Greys, which showed that he attested on 8/12/14 arrived at 6th Cavalry Depot, Dunbar on 10/12/14 and due to previous service (4 Royal Scots (terr)) according to the above form was promoted to L/Corporal on 14/5/15 and was transferred to Royal Scots. He then lands at Boulogne on 12/8/15 and receives a gun shot wound to neck on 25/9/15 which is severe enough to result in his returning to UK. I think this injury was sustained on first day of the Battle of Loos, but still to look into that. He bravely returned to France in February 1916 and fell at the High Wood on the Somme on 22/7/16. I cant find any information relating to his previous service, anything on that would be welcome. I am a bit miffed by The Royal Scots Dragoons for dismissing the photograph as not being one of theirs as horse was not grey. I think the photograph must have been taken at Dunbar between 14/5 and 3/6/15 when he was transferrred. I am absolutely certain he is Charles Stuart I can vividly recall my grandfather telling me that the man on horse (which is in fact his father in law) was killed at the Somme, but it was the fact he was in the Infantry at that time which led to the current confusion, I had also ruled out my Gt Grandfather David Gardiner as being the man in the photo as my research revealed he was a train driver who had no military service and was killed in a shunting accident in Edinburgh in 1923. Once again thanks to all and well done for insisting it was the RS Greys all along! Joe Gardiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 I rest my case m'lud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 It is unfortunately true, and inevitable, that regimental museums often deal in simplistic c*bblers. Well done GS, and can I add that I have a distinct memory of reading somewhere that a regiment mounted on greys dyed their horses when they went to war [which war?] using iodine .... is my mind on the blink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Webb Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 Well done Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 Well done GS, and can I add that I have a distinct memory of reading somewhere that a regiment mounted on greys dyed their horses when they went to war [which war?] using iodine .... is my mind on the blink? Tim Carew, in the prologue to WIPERS, mentions that the Royal Scots Greys dyed their horses with a solution of permanganate of potash. Regards CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 3 December , 2009 Share Posted 3 December , 2009 That is exactly what I was trying to remember, thank you. I suggest the regimental museum needs informing!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acoy1stbatttigers Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 hi the regiment seems to be 2nd King Edwards Horse, all the best ww1tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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