ian.sumner Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Does anyone know of a regimental history for the war period of 4. Hannoversches Infanterie Regiment Nr 164? I've tried the German National Library site, and found a book published in Hameln in 1932, and apparently written anonymously, entitled 'Geschichte des 4. Hannoverschen Infanterie-Regiments Nr 164 und seines Stammtruppenteils ...', but an entry on Abebooks says that its account stops in 1914. I'm particularly interested in the regiment's part in the action at Mondement on 9th September 1914. Grateful for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Does anyone know of a regimental history for the war period of 4. Hannoversches Infanterie Regiment Nr 164? I've tried the German National Library site, and found a book published in Hameln in 1932, and apparently written anonymously, entitled 'Geschichte des 4. Hannoverschen Infanterie-Regiments Nr 164 und seines Stammtruppenteils ...', but an entry on Abebooks says that its account stops in 1914. I'm particularly interested in the regiment's part in the action at Mondement on 9th September 1914. This is outside my area of expertise (which is the Kingdom of Saxony) unfortunately - however, I strongly suggest that (if you are in the UK) you should contact the reading room at the IWM and ask them. They have a huge collection of German unit histories and, if one was published, they probably have it. As a comparison, they have regimental histories for ALL of the Saxon infantry regiments that existed in peace time, and the majority of the war-raised ones. ARL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Ian I own a copy of that history. If you are happy with Fraktur and send me an e mail address off Forum I can scan and send you the relevant pages. There is a map, a good descriprtion and personal accounts in what is one of the better German histories. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.sumner Posted 7 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Ian I own a copy of that history. If you are happy with Fraktur and send me an e mail address off Forum I can scan and send you the relevant pages. There is a map, a good descriprtion and personal accounts in what is one of the better German histories. Jack Many thanks. Message on its way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Hello ian, here are some informations about this unit. http://www.hamelner-geschichte.de/index.php?id=46 Kind regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Thanks, Fritz. Very interesting. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 23 February , 2014 Share Posted 23 February , 2014 I'd be very interested in any more detail on the 164 IR service on the Somme on or around 26/8 - 4/9 1916. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 23 February , 2014 Share Posted 23 February , 2014 Is there any information of the participation of this regiment in the massacres at Tamines and Gougnies in 1914 ? Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 24 February , 2014 Share Posted 24 February , 2014 Horne states that IR77 was at Tamines. I have the regimental history, which I can check, but I believe that nothing is mentioned about their involvement in a "massacre". I can also check the regimental history for IR92, which was brigaded with IR77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 24 February , 2014 Share Posted 24 February , 2014 Thank you Ken I've read extracts of a diary by a Werner Dittmann who later became a pilot. He talks about the execution of hostages. Local texts talk of up to 384 victims. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 This is what the regimental history for IR77 has (pp. 49/50): In Tamines war noch ein Strafgericht zu vollziehen. In den Morgenstunden verhaftete Zivilisten harrten in der Kirche noch der Aburteilung durch das Standgericht. Der Spruch lautete auf Tod. Die feigen Attentäter wurden aufgestellt, 3 Salven krachten und alles war vorbei.Ueber diese standrechtliche Erschießung ist viel geschrieben worden, vor allem hat sich die scheinheilige feindliche Presse bemüht, sie als Greueltat hinzustellen. Bei der Beurteilung soll man doch aber nicht vergessen, von welchen Ueberlegungen aus das Standgericht sein Urteil fällte. Mitten im Angriff gegen einen 4--5 fach stärkeren Feind wurden die 77er durch feige Zivilisten, die vorher geschont waren, überfallen, der ganze Vormarsch und der Plan der Führung wurde bedroht, die 11. Kompagnie, die im Eingange des Hohlweges südlich des Dorfes die beiden Häuser gestürmt hatte, geriet in Gefahr, abgeschnitten und überrannt zu werden. Sicherlich war der Spruch hart, aber in erster Linie mußte für das Standgericht die Notwendigkeit gelten, dem deutschen Soldaten die nötige Sicherheit gegen dieses völkerrechtswidrige Verhalten der belgischen Bevölkerung zu verschaffen, denn schließlich war doch das Leben eines deutschen Musketiers für uns mehr wert als das von zehn Belgiern. Und wir wollen uns doch auf Grund unserer trüben, schmerzlichen Erfahrungen während der Zeit der ,,friedlichen'' französischen Besatzungszeit an Rhein und Ruhr darüber klar sein, daß Belgier und Franzosen in umgekehrtem Falle viel schärfer vorgegangen wären und keinen Stein auf dem anderen gelassen hätten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 Ken Thanks for the info Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 3 March , 2014 Share Posted 3 March , 2014 The only reference I can find for this period in the IR92 history is (p. 65): Auch in diesem Tage war der Feind durch Spione bedient. In Oret wurden ein Priester und ein anderer Mann aufgegriffen. Im Hause des Geistlichen war ein Mann der 3. Komp. erschossen worden. Man fand bei dem Priester zwei abgeschossene Pistolen; die beiden Zivilisten wurden auf Befehl des Obersten Havenstein erschossen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 30 October , 2014 Share Posted 30 October , 2014 Is there an online edition of the 164 IR history? Or a modern Reprint edition? What's the full title.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 31 October , 2014 Share Posted 31 October , 2014 Catalog entry in the German National Library... https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=showFullRecord¤tResultId=%22Infanterie%22+and+%22164%22%26any¤tPosition=2 If it's not digitized it probably will be within the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 31 October , 2014 Share Posted 31 October , 2014 Thanks Ken- I found a copy for €180 but felt that was a bit expensive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 28 October , 2015 Share Posted 28 October , 2015 Is there any sign of a digital edition yet?? Are there war diaries for IR 164? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 29 October , 2015 Share Posted 29 October , 2015 It doesn't appear to have been digitized yet. Most likely the war diaries were destroyed with many of the other Prussian military records in 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 January , 2017 Share Posted 22 January , 2017 Any digitisation yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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