8915 Harold Roberts KOYLI, Labour Corps , RAFYorkshire Light Infantry

[dcrofts]

I have just purchased my great uncles WW1 service/medal record card from the NA. His name is Harold ROBERTS no: 8915. I don't understand a few of the things on the card and wonder if anyone could explain. It looks like he joined the Army first - Yorks Lancs regiment - Lance Corporal, then it looks like he transferred?? to the Air Force as under "Corps" it has "Lab corps" - what does that mean? Under "rank" it has A M Sjt and then it seems he has a new "Reg no:" which is 199662 - does that mean that I could find more records under that number? Under the section "Action taken" it has R.A.F Pilot Cfd or Ofd - what does that mean? Then it has "Comm early WS//11489" - what does that mean? What does A M Sjt stand for? I'm sorry I know nothing about the military but hopefully a few of you out there can help unravel my mystery as we know very little about this man.

All help greatly appreciated.

[ralphjd]

Starting from the top:- L/corporal 8915 Yorkshire Light Infantry; Quarter Master Sergt 199662 Labour Corps; Royal Air Force Pilot Officer Commisioned under authority WS/2/1148(no idea what this means) British War and Victory medals to be issued by Air Ministry authority (same as above) 1914 Star rep (replaced ? ) by R A ?

Hope this helps Ralph.

[Stebie9173]

Firstly the Medal Index says that he was with the "Yorkshire Light Infantry" which we would normally take to be the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (a different Regiment to the York & Lancs).

He went to France as a Lance-Corporal on 10th August 1914 at the very start of the war. This would have been with the 2nd Battalion of the KOYLI in 5th Division:

http://www.1914-1918.net/koyli.htm

http://www.1914-1918.net/5div.htm

He would therefore have been a serving soldier at the outbreak of war - either still in the Army or on Reserve.

From there he moved to the Labour Corps as a Quartermaster Sergeant (abbrev. Q.M. Sjt.). The Labour Corps was often manned by men who had been previously wounded and were not quite physically able to do front line duty. His number suggests that this was around early 1917 when the Labour Corps was set up. He may have been serving in a Labour Battalion/Company of the KOYLI prior to this, however.

At some point later in the war he was commissioned as an Officer - a Pilot Officer in the RAF.

Steve.

[SteveE]

If you purchased the card from the NA site you won't have these details from the back.......

[Stebie9173]

This London Gazette entry possibly refers to his retirement from the RAF:

London Gazette 10-8-1920

Air Ministry

10th August, 1920.

ROYAL AIR FORCE.

FLYING BRANCH.

2nd Lt. Harold Roberts (0.) is placed on the retired list, 11th Aug. 1920.

http://www.gazettesonline.co.uk/ViewPDF.as...t=&similar=

There are at least 35 possible Officer files at the NA - has your researcher gone through all of them? There are also the RAF pilots files in AIR76 that he could be in.

Steve.

[dcrofts]

WOW!! thanks for all your help - I'm amazed at what I now know. On the card at the top it looks like EFQ ret'd 24.3.1921 - what does EFQ mean? If that is off his card the next posting from the London Gazette won't be him will it - as it has another ret'd date?

[Stebie9173]

It probably should read E. F. 9 Returned 24-3-1921 - the return of a form to the War Office/Army/Royal Air Force on 24-3-1921.

I think it stands for "Eligibility Form" - i.e. he was applying for his medals, and filling in a form to prove that he was eligible.

Note that there is correspondence about issuing his medals shortly after that on both 2-5-1921 and 2-6-1921.

Steve.

[Kath]

ag,

when was your gt.uncle born?

The back of the MIC - I think "Ryder St." is a mistake for RYDAL Road.

I can't find a Ryder St. in Sheffield.

Kath.

[dcrofts]

Harold Roberts was born 11 June 1889, and his father lived on Rydal Rd so that sounds right.

There are also the RAF pilots files in AIR76 that he could be in. - where can I look for these records as I am keen to learn about his Air Force career as a pilot.

Thanks everyone for your help

[Stebie9173]

The AIR76 "cards" are on microfilm at the National Archives.

They are filed alphabetically by name with a number of men on the same microfilm reel. The cards are usually a couple of sides of an old fashioned card index - sometimes 3 or 4 sides - not extensive, but they usually state the man's postings.

His entry will be on Reel:

AIR 76/428 (Roab, V W to Roberts, John) Years 1918-1919

Steve.

[dcrofts]

Thanks for the info - so I'd have to get a researcher to look that up for me? (I'm in Oz)

[Stebie9173]

That would be a Yes, you will need a researcher....

Steve.

[Kath]

ag,

For background -

here's a link to a Sheffield Family History research group who are helpful:

http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org/index.html

& there's the Sheffield Family History Society:

http://www.sheffieldfhs.org.uk/

Kath.

[dcrofts]

Ok - thanks everyone for your help - so much appreciated - still amazed at what you can find out from your living room in Australia about a relative who fought in WW1.......

thanks again

[Ivor Lee]

Aussie Gypsy

His Labour Corps number indicates he was almost certainly in 59 Group. As Steve said he probably joined the Labour Corps around May 1917. In fact 59 Group was formed May 1917 from men serving in the 20th Battalion (Notts & Derby)Regiment who were not placed in 28 & 29 Company of the Labour Corps - that explains why his number is different from the men in 28 & 29 Company.

I suspect that he was either transferred from the KOYLIs to the 20th Notts & Derby or attached to them. I have come across men who were in Labour Battalions but who do not seem to have been a regimental number for that Battalion.

If you do find a service record for him whilst still in the Army I would be interested to know if he did serve in the 20th Notts & Derby.

Ivor