SS Connemara

[reebrov]

I am after more info on an ancestor of mine who went down on the Connemara in 1916. His name was Isaac Woodall born 1889. Apparently he was a crewman onboard. Any info appreciated, ie. burial details etc.

Reebrov

[Tony Lund]

There was a memorial service a while ago. This link is to a report about it from BBC Wales. They mention the Holyhead Maritime Museum. Maybe they will have something?

Tony.

Connamara Memorial Service.

[Terence Munson]

This site also has some details: Click

Cheers, Terry

[melliget]

In a severe gale, Connemara, a twin-screw steamer of 1,100 tons owned by London and North-Western Railway Co., and the tramp steamer Retriever of 483 tons, owned by Mr Fred Ferris of Nowry, collided in the Irish Channel off Greenore Friday 3 Nov 1916. Both ships sank with the loss of 90 casualties, only one survivor, James Boyle of Warrenpoint, a member of crew of the Retriever (who could not swim) was washed ashore clinging to an upturned boat. The Connemara, with a crew of 31 and 51 passengers. sank in 5 minutes. The Retriever kept afloat for nearly a quarter of an hour before sinking. I can supply the names of the crew of the Connemara and the Retriever and some of the passengers (mainly intending emigrants to America). Isaac Woodall is listed with the crew of the Connemara as a fireman.

regards,

Martin

[Wrecktec]

The CONNEMARA (Official No.104973) was a 1,106-ton steam passenger/cargo ship that was built and completed as Yard No.558 in January 1897 by W. Denny & Bros., Dumbarton; she was launched on 7 November 1896 for London & Northwestern Railway Co., Dublin.She was powered by two triple expansion steam engines that used twin propellers that gave 18-knots

On 3 November 1916 she sank following a collision with S.S. RETRIEVER (a collier of 459-tons built in 1906 - also lost), off Carlingford Bar, while voyaging from Greenore to Holyhead with passengers, general cargo & cattle

Cheers Ron

[clive_hughes]

Isaac Woodall was recorded as being a Fireman aboard the SS Connemara, aged 30 and resident at 14 Wynne Street, Holyhead, Anglesey. The local newspaper account of the disaster (The Holyhead Chronicle, 10 November 1916 and subsequent issues to 8 December) stated that he previously served aboard HM Hospital Ship Cambria, another local vessel.

The town of Holyhead felt deeply enough about the accident for the local crew's names to be included on the Town War Memorial, and also on the Holyhead panel of the North Wales Heroes Memorial Arch at Bangor, Gwynedd.

26 of the crew, including one stewardess, were from Holyhead; two from Amlwch; two from Newborough; one from Bangor, and one from Huddersfield, Yorks. 31 were classified as "crew" plus one Luggage Guard.

Woodall, though mentioned in the newspaper, had no funeral / grave details recorded in that source - one of only 2 crew for whom this was the case, since the others were buried at Maeshyfryd Cemetery, Holyhead. The exceptions were four crew who were clearly stated not to have been found or identified, and one (the Captain) has a grave in Ireland.

Fireman Isaac Woodall and Seaman John Williams were, however, included with the names of those whose bodies were recovered and returned to Holyhead so their omission might just be a journalistic slip and you might well find that they were interred at Maeshyfryd. The possibility remains, however, that he was buried elsewhere and you would need to make further enquiries in that case.

One of his neighbours at 45 Wynne Street died accidentally 20 days later while serving with the RNR, and others were lost with both the Army and Navy during the war.

By all means contact the Maritime Museum at Holyhead, but if you get stuck, pm me and I will put you in touch with a local WW1 maritime specialist.

LST_164

[Tony Lund]

The Huddersfield man is John Beever, the radio operator. Will he be buried at Maeshyfryd Cemetery? He is one a small number of Holmfirth men whose burial details I do not have, so any information on this would be useful and much appreciated. All I have at the moment is that his body was identified by a relative.

Tony.

[clive_hughes]

Tony,

what I have in my newspaper notes on Wireless Operator John Beever (originally spelled "Beaver" in the first report) is that he was resident at Woodland Mount, Bradford Road, Huddersfield and had served with the London & North Western Railway Co. since February 1915.

His body was noted as having been recovered to Holyhead. I have no note of age, family, or the final disposition of his remains. This sadly may be because at the time I made the notes I had my sights firmly fixed on the Anglesey casualties, and so may have paid less attention to someone who wasn't from the Island. He is not mentioned on the Town or N.Wales War Memorials.

I likewise have no certainty about the graves of the Bangor and Newborough casualties, though one of the two Amlwch crew members was reportedly buried in his home town.

Beever may well have been interred at Maeshyfryd nevertheless, and as with my previous reply I will try to find out from my Maritime contact.

Some other notes:

Captain G.H.Doeg who commanded the vessel was apparently originally from Carlisle but resident in Holyhead. He was buried at the Society of Friends Burial Ground, Temple Hill, Blackrock, Dublin.

A number of the crew had previously served on other local ships such as the Anglia (sunk as Hospital Ship 1915) and HMHS Cambria.

Quartermaster George Stephen Owen, aged 46, had lost his son Pte George Owen 1/6th RWF (age 19) who died of wounds at sea in August 1915 following the landing at Suvla Bay, Gallipoli.

Fireman Owen Thomas Williams aged 40 was an old soldier of the Cheshire Regiment who had spent 14 years in India and had only left the Army in 1914. His was one of the several bodies which were never recovered, another being that of the Stewardess, Margaret Williams of Caergeiliog, Bodedern, Anglesey.

LST_164

[Tony Lund]

Thank you, anything about John Beever's burial would be useful.

Tony.

[clive_hughes]

reebrov,

my Holyhead contact has replied today with the following information on Isaac Woodall:

Isaac Woodall is buried in Maeshyfryd Burial Ground, Holyhead and his grave has a slate "CWGC-style" headstone (he says it's some 30 yds back towards H/hd from the furthest gate, first or second row up from the wall). Some further info is that he had joined the L&NWRly Co on the 20th May 1914 and may have been serving on the Cambria as a Fireman(Stoker) when she was taken over by the RN on the 8th August to be converted to a Fleet Messenger. He signed form T.124(for MN personnel willing to serve under RN conditions, rates of pay,feeding,uniform,etc)on the 11th August and she left Holyhead after "conversion" on the 15th for service with the Fleet at Scapa Flow. He remained with her after she was converted to a Hosptal Ship(South Coast, Dover etc) 21st July 1915 but left on the 17th Feb 1916 when he was presumably appointed to the Connemara? By the way, he believes there are still some family in the Holyhead area. He also says that Woodall was born in 1888. Thank you Geraint!

Tony, as to Beever my contact had no information, except to suggest that being an L&NWRly employee his body would probably have had rapid (?& free) transit on the railway network to his home area. Maybe the obituaries etc. for your local newspapers of that period might carry further details?

I will try to update you on any further information which might come to light.

LST_164

[reebrov]

Many thanks for the information

You are right LST_164, there are still relatives of Isaac living on Anglesey - i am in contact with his grandson. I found him as i am researching my family tree and found that Isaac's father (also named Isaac) married my Gt Gt Grandmother following her divorce with my Gt Gt grandfather. My Gt Gt Grandmother is the Connemara Isaac's mother.

Reebrov

[Hywyn]

Clive

Re the Bangor casualties.

The book Cofeb y Dewrion (re Bangor WW1 casualyies) gives two casualties with local links.

Richard John Jones aged 64 whose body was revovered and buried at Glanadda Cemetery.

William Humphrey Jones aged 17. There is no indication where he was buried. He was the grandson of a local Police Sgt and brought up by him.

If you have notes re these two I would be obliged.

Hywyn

Edited

[clive_hughes]

More amendments to the Connemara information...

reebrov,

my helpful contact at Holyhead has gone out to Maeshyfryd and finds that the former "CWGC-style" slate headstone for Woodall seems to have been replaced by a newer, smaller black marble version. It is also nearer 100 yards from the further cemetery gate.

He adds that Woodall left a widow and daughter, and an alternative address of 43 Wynne Street, Holyhead. With contemporary newspaper accounts it is quite possible for exact age, address and other details to be incorrectly taken down. Though the local paper gives 14 Wynne Street, it would be useful to have this confirmed from Electoral Rolls or other sources.

hywyn,

concerning the two Bangor casualties. One, Fireman Richard John Jones, I was aware of and his details in Cofeb y Dewrion are exactly matched by those in the Holyhead Chronicle account of the disaster. So much so, that at this moment in time I can't add more to the record. Neither he nor William Humphrey Jones appear on the Memorial inside Bangor Cathedral to "men belonging to Bangor who sacrificed their lives for their country in the Great War". Interestingly, there are quite a few on that plaque who are NOT mentioned in Cofeb y Dewrion either.

With William Humphrey Jones I can add a little more, because although it's not mentioned in the Bangor volume he was claimed as a local casualty by Holyhead. That surprised me, and I'm grateful to you for drawing my attention to his Bangor connection. The newspaper accounts 10 Nov.-8 Dec 1916 give him as a Deck Boy, resident at 6 (another source* 61) Henry Street, Holyhead, age 16, and had worked for the LNWR Coy. for about a year. He was buried at Maeshyfryd according to the papers. He was also a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist, and a memorial service was held for him and several other crew members at Disgwylfa (London Road) CM Chapel, Holyhead according to the 10 November account. He is mentioned with 12 other church casualties on the Memorial Organ in that place of worship, in Hugh Owen's Hanes MC Mon 1880-1935*, p.190

He is also named on the Holyhead Town War Memorial, and the H'head panel of the North Wales Heroes Memorial Arch, Bangor.

Hope this helps,

LST_164

[reebrov]

The Isaac in my tree - His 1915 marriage certificate states he lived at 14 Wynne Street and his age (at marriage) was 27 years old (he was born Jan 1889). Which means he would have been 27 yrs old when he died. He also had one son and not one daughter.........

However, there was another Isaac Woodall (born 1885), cousin of the Isaac Woodall discussed here. He was married with one daughter.

I would be interested to see what is on the headstone - i.e. name of wife or a parent.

It seems that it could be either Isaac's at the moment!!

Reebrov

[Rogin]

Reebrov,

Isaac Woodalls headstone reads - translated from Welsh - "To remember Isaac Woodall who lost his life on the Connemara. November 3rd 1916. 28 years old. Also Huw(Hugh) Thomas Roberts who died due to an accident in the coalfields of the south July 4th 1924 aged 30 years.

The book "Holyhead and the Great War" amongst other items relates the story of the Connemara, and lists her local casualties, here Isaac is shown as residing at 43, Wynne Street. For your information also shown are a W.J. and Robert Woodall of 24, Cambria Street who served with the RWFus during the war.

I did pass on some information mentioning that he left a widow and a daughter - sorry I should have said a widow and one child.

Hope the above is of some use

Regards

Rogin.

[reebrov]

Thanks v much Rogin.

This is my man but the age is still incorrect - he was born jan 1889, which means he was 27 when he died not 28. W.J and Robert Woodall are probaly his nephews William John and Robert Woodall - any more info on them that u have i would be grateful.

Reason i say they are his nephews is that Isaac's father was 49 when he was born - a grand old age in that era!!

iwan

Edited to add: Huw T Roberts could be Isaac's widow's 2nd husband - i have found she married a Henry T Roberts in 1919. She may have interred them both together.......

[clive_hughes]

Here are a few pictures of crew who died in the Connemara accident, for interest:

Fireman Richard John Jones, Bangor. Aged 64

Deck Boy William Humphrey Jones, Bangor and Holyhead. Aged 16

Second officer Elias Jones, Amlwch. Aged 30

Seaman Owen Pritchard, Amlwch. Aged 38

Sources: W.J.Owen (Afallon), Cofeb Y Dewrion Heroes Memorial 1914-1918 (Bangor)

David Jones, Talar Gwroldeb. Nodion Cof Cewri Fy Ardal (Amlwch, 1919)

LST_164

[GHLJohnston]

John Beever, SS Connemara Wireless Operator

full length photo posted here:

Merchant Seaman missing from CWGC register.,

[Tony Lund]

I intend using at least 50 photographs from the war on a website dealing with Holmfirth during the Great War. This will be starting during the next few weeks. If I can use the photo of John Beever it would help, I have some good photos but also many that are a bit rough to put it mildly. So far as John Beever is concerned I still do not know where he is buried, but would guess somewhere in Huddersfield. His father was running a rug making business at Swan Bank Mill, Holmfirth.

Tony.

[GHLJohnston]

Feel free to use the photo, as far as I'm concerned.

For your project, do you have a list of names posted anywhere yet?

For instance, a "lucky dip" in the hat box just gave me a portrait photo of a young Sailor, Great War or could be slightly after, of "Ernest PLATT of Holmfirth, son of cousin Annie". (post card type photo by Bamforth ? of Holmfirth).

[clive_hughes]

Tony,

just struck me re. Beever.

I presume you've checked the local newspapers for the time he died, with no success. Also presuming that as the Holyhead Chronicle suggests, he wasn't buried at H'head.

I know that some Family History Societies have carried out extensive surveys of headstones within cemeteries in their areas (Anglesey is a case in point). Always assuming he was buried in your area, and that his grave has a headstone, would it pay you to check with your local FHS (or maybe your County Record Office/Reference Library) for copies of these surveys - which should have nominal indexes - in case you can find him that way??

LST_164

[Tony Lund]

LST_164, thanks. I will check that. There are a few men besides John Beever whose grave locations are still unknown to me.

Thanks,

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

Geoffrey, I have nothing on Ernest. But H. Platt is recorded amongst surviving members on the Holmfirth cricket club memorial. In 1917 Company Sergeant Major Percy Platt, serving with the Duke of Wellington’s Regiment, was gazetted Second Lieutenant. He was a pre-war draughtsman from Tenter Hill, New Mill, who volunteered in September 1914. George Platt was one of a group of children who raised money for the hospital during the war, but that is all I have at the moment.

I would like a copy of "Ernest PLATT of Holmfirth, son of cousin Annie" if possible. There will be a website in the next few weeks, but this is something new for me so I cannot say exactly when it will be ready. I have over half a million words written on the History of Holmfirth during the Great War, but if someone is not mentioned in the local papers or on a memorial, I am unlikely to come across them unless a family member passes me the information.

It is often a good sign if I have not heard of someone. It suggests that nothing bad enough to be reported happened to him.

Bamforth & Company of Holmfirth and New York were local photographers and filmmakers, who exported their silent films all over the world; hence the New York office.

Tony.

[phil@basildon]

It might interest you to know that the LNWR erected a war memorial to all their staff who lost their lives in the Great War. I believe it was at Euston station and may still be there. There is one at Liverpool Street station to GER staff that is still in situ.

[Guest Andrew Williams]

Hello All,

This is my first post as I became a new memeber on the forum yesterday.

My area of research deals with the Titanic Relief Fund. As I live within a ten mile radius of Southampton I focus all my attention on the old Southampton Committee.

I know this thread is somewhat old but I am particulalry interested in learning anything new on the Connemara as this unknown disaster was incorporated onto the Titanic Relief Fund. The actual Connemara Fund didn't finished in 1927.

Unfortuately the bulk of many documents belonging to the Southampton Committee were destroyed during the mid-sixties, only a small amount survives now. As for the Connemara, I can assist with minor information, as I am almost sure the business in helping those dependent families was dealt with by the old Liverpool Committee. The Fund had five major offices scattered around the U.K, Southampton, Liverpool, Exeter, Belfast, and the Manchester Office, and all five had to report to the London Mansion House on a monthly basis.

If this does help, and if there is a urge of wanting to search for more details and material then I strongly advise you to switich all your efforts aimed at Liverpool. The Minute Book's may hold more clues for the answers you're searching for.

I have amongst my collection a rarity in the way of a yearly report published by the Mansion House during the financiial year of 1924. Inside the pages the report makes reference to the money set aside for the victims of the Connemara with a few names and Mansion House numbers for each of those dependents who were entitled to money, either on a weekly or monthly basis. The ususal amount was basically pittance like a few shillings a week. Once I hunt out the document I shall list those names with numbers included.

I hope the above gives you some insight of what happened during the aftermath of this disaster of 1916.

Very best wishes

Andrew Williams

Hampshire.