4thGordons Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 This may have been discussed previously but a quick search of the forum did not turn anything up. '08 pattern Lewis gun (ammunition) drum pouches appear fairly regularly here in the US. The ones I have seen are a lightish green colour and seem to all be South African and WWII in origin. Were pouches of this pattern widely used in the Great War? Were they worn by the gunners or the mate/ammo carriers, were they worn only in pairs, or also singly (perhaps to allow a webley also?) and finally I had a cursory socut through my library and I didn't turn up any pictures...does anyone know of any? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Hi Chris They were issued from 1917 and I have a set with this date. A modification was made to the pattern as in their original configuration the pouches had a tendency to hang away from the body when full. The pattern was amended by changing the positioning of the strap to the rear of the pouch. Those pouches in the process of being made were also amended and sometimes you can see the black marks on the back which indicated the original position. (I hope this makes sense!) The amended examples are usually dated 1918. The 1917 in original configuration are scarce. 1917 braces are almost as scarce. As to photographs two spring to mind. There is a photo of an Australian platoon and I'm pretty sure one of the guys is wearing a set. Also in the IWM there is a picture of a Tommy wearing a set with a groundsheet over his shoulders. He is standing in front of a German road sign Kronprinzstrasse in a ruined French village. I believe these both date from 1918. There must be others. I'm sure that Joe Sweeney can give us an intro date which was probably mid to late 1917. Of course they are shown in photos on the fitting instructions. I have a copy of these and also the 'Kronprinz' photo. I'm away for a few days so will not be able to get hold of them for a little while. I'm sure someone else has got them. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Introduction was 28 May 1917 (List of Changes 18892). My set is 1918 and modified; with 18 braces (all pairs I've seen to be marked to the Dorsets for some strange reason). There are photos of the sets being worn on pp. 152 and 154 of Uniforms & Equipment of the British Army in World War I by Steve Chambers; and two in action spring to mind - one of troops sleeping on a bank below a hedge, among some dead, with a set/ sets strewn around; and another 1918 of team in action (in battle order, with ration bags hanging from the small pack). If I can find 'em, I'll give the references. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henschke Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 SS 194 covers the wearing, issued by the General Staff, October 1917. Attached are two images from that Staff Sheet. The No. 1 would not normally wear these. I doubt that they would be worn singly and have never seen an image showing this configuration. It would make a very unbalanced set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Thanks very much - just what I needed. Is it my eyes or in the picture at the bottom from SS194 are the drum pouches being worn over the top of standard rifle ammunition pouches? (makes sense as the No1 is armed with a rifle). Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Thanks very much - just what I needed. Is it my eyes or in the picture at the bottom from SS194 are the drum pouches being worn over the top of standard rifle ammunition pouches? (makes sense as the No1 is armed with a rifle). Chris Your eyes do not deceive you - in a Vickers or Lewis team, usually only the No. 1 and 2 of the crew were armed with a pistol (as the respective gun was their primary weapon) - the rest of the team would consist of men armed as standard rifle men BUT carrying additional supplies for the gun. In this case, 8 filled 47 round drums for the Lewis (best part of 400 rounds) IN ADDITION to the 150 rounds carried in the 1908 ammunition pouches for his rifle, plus anything else ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2007 In this case, 8 filled 47 round drums for the Lewis (best part of 400 rounds) IN ADDITION to the 150 rounds carried in the 1908 ammunition pouches for his rifle, plus anything else ... That was exactly the calculation I was making.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 That was exactly the calculation I was making.... I should also point out, in action, at least the front two pouches would be worn noticable higher on the chest. It's fun enough throwing yourself to the ground rapidly with full 1908 or 1914 pattern ammuntion pouches on your ribs, 10 times worse if there's a pair of full Lewis gun drums on top... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 Chris, FYI here are 42nd Bn CEF moving to the front in late 1918. (borrowed from 42nd RHC website) http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_18922526/....rAGIXHBjkkCjXoJ Very common for only two pouches to be worn in action. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 There is a good image of these being used on P. 234 of Gibson/ Oldfield's Sheffield City Battalion (2006 hardback edition) - the picture showing a Lewis team of the 13th York & Lancs (1st Barnsley Pals) in March 1918. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2009 Apologies for reviving a long dead thread but could one of the experts indicate the similarities/differences between this pair of pouches (MECo 1940) and the great war pattern. I just picked up a pair. Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 21 September , 2009 Share Posted 21 September , 2009 Apologies for reviving a long dead thread but could one of the experts indicate the similarities/differences between this pair of pouches (MECo 1940) and the great war pattern. I just picked up a pair. They're identical to 1918 dated ones I've seen. They seem to have changed where they put the strap on the rear during the war - in 1917 it was lower down, which caused the pouches to lean forward when worn with the heavy magazines inside, so they moved the strap up a little by 1918, which corrected the problem somewhat. You sometimes see the 1918 pouches with the lines marked on them for where the straps were originally intended to be placed, but put higher (presumably just using up old stock marked for the now obsolete set up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2009 Thanks Andrew - much appreciated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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