TrishaG Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Hi, my husbands grandfather was called Albert Cecil GREEN b 1890 in Warborough,Oxon. I think he was in the Ox and Bucks and was probably living in Boarstall or Piddington,Oxon or at a push Marlow,High Wycombe,Bucks at the time war broke out. According to the family,he served in France ,(probably on the Somme) and was wounded there in c1916 and he recieved the 1914-15 Star,Victory Medal and the War Medal. Can anyone trace him for me? This is all I know about his time in the forces. Many thanks, SusanPatricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Hello Susan There are four possible OBLI Albert Greens taking into account the middlename of Cecil here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Susan The 8921 Albert was a casualty so you are down to three candidates: Name: GREEN Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry Unit Text: 1st Bn. Date of Death: 10/11/1916 Service No: 8921 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: XXI. K. 43. Cemetery: BAGHDAD (NORTH GATE) WAR CEMETERY Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 2 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2007 Susan The 8921 Albert was a casualty so you are down to three candidates: Name: GREEN Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry Unit Text: 1st Bn. Date of Death: 10/11/1916 Service No: 8921 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: XXI. K. 43. Cemetery: BAGHDAD (NORTH GATE) WAR CEMETERY Regards Mel Hi Mel, no thats not him.I know he survived the war and ended up in Wales by 1917.After he was wounded he became a platelayer on the railways in South wales during the war but didn't have an SWB.I've often wondered if soldiers were used in Wales to suplement the shortage of civilians(however I have another post on this). Since putting this post out I've discovered that a man's regiment and number are engraved on the edge of his medals.My very elderly father in law was certain it was the Ox and Bucks but looking at the medals(it was a bit difficult because they are already in a case and it couldn'y be opened) he was:- Pvte Albert Cecil GREEN(it actually said "A.C" but I know his full name) Wiltshire Regt- 19C75 Hope that helps the search a bit more, SusanPatricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 November , 2007 Share Posted 2 November , 2007 Here's the link to download his Medal Index Card Medal card of Green, Albert C Corps Regiment No Rank Wiltshire Regiment 19675 Private Wiltshire Regiment 19675 Private http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=4 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 2 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2007 Here's the link to download his Medal Index Card Medal card of Green, Albert C Corps Regiment No Rank Wiltshire Regiment 19675 Private Wiltshire Regiment 19675 Private http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=4 Steve. Hi Steve, Ah-it was 6 not C.Well it was very difficult to read-lol. What does Corps regiment mean ? Many thanks for your help, SusanPatricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 November , 2007 Share Posted 2 November , 2007 It's just me being lazy and copying and pasting. It should read: Corps = Wiltshire Regiment (It says Corps because you also get Royal Engineers, Army Service Corps, etc. which are technically Corps not Regiments. The Wiltshire Regiment is part of the "Corps of Infantry") Regiment No. = 19675 Rank = Private. It is aligned better on the link that I copied the details from. If you pay your £3.50 for the Medal Index Card PDF download (Albert's card will be with 5 other men's cards, some of which may also be called Albert Green), we can probably figure out some more of his service from it. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 2 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2007 It's just me being lazy and copying and pasting. It should read: Corps = Wiltshire Regiment (It says Corps because you also get Royal Engineers, Army Service Corps, etc. which are technically Corps not Regiments. The Wiltshire Regiment is part of the "Corps of Infantry") Regiment No. = 19675 Rank = Private. It is aligned better on the link that I copied the details from. If you pay your £3.50 for the Medal Index Card PDF download (Albert's card will be with 5 other men's cards, some of which may also be called Albert Green), we can probably figure out some more of his service from it. Steve. Hi Steve, just downloaded, the medal card. It seems he was discharged.Under the the words "Theatre of War" it says "SWB LIST C/32".I don't understand what the C/32 refers to.Unfortunately his SWB has got lost. The medal card also says he from the Wiltshire Regiment and gives his rank and number and includes his medals and the rolls on which they are included. The Theatre of war is (1) France.Why is there a (1) next to the France? Next, there is the qualifying date which is 5.5.15.What does that refer to?Could it be when he was wounded? Underneath the qualifying date are a line of numbers.Can you tell me their significance? (6 34 4 ) W234-HP5590 500,000 4/19 HWV (P240) K608 Is there anyway of finding out what battalion he was in and when he joined up and even,if I'm very lucky what battles he may have took part in and where he got injured Many thanksif you can help me with any of this, SusanPatricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 2 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2007 Hi Steve, I've put a fresh post up about finding Albert Green's Battalion and where he fought and where he was wounded.So don't think you're seeing double. SusanPatricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 November , 2007 Share Posted 2 November , 2007 The Qualifying date for the 1914-15 Star is the day he went to France (Theatre of War No. 1) The codes next to the medal boxes can be decoded so that you can look up his Medal Rolls which will give his battalion(s) served with. None of the Territorial or Service battalions made it to France by May 1915 so he must have been with either the 1st or 2nd Battalion. http://www.1914-1918.net/wilts.htm The SWB List reference refers to the Silver War badge. The Medal Rolls for the SWB can be looked up at the National Archives. These will list - Date of enlistment, date of discharge, reason for discharge (sometimes just S= Sickness or W = Wounds), and unit discharged from - sometimes the Depot of the Regiment. Looking at your other post it looks like he got himself married when he knew he was going to go overseas for the first time. The War Diaries of the Wiltshire Regiment can be viewed here: https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/wardiary.php The 1st Battalions diary is a masterpiece of brevity, the 2nd's is not much better but has a note of a draft of men arriving on the 8th May 1915, in the right timeframe for Albert joining a battalion of the Wiltshire Regiment in the line. 2nd Wiltshire Saturday 8th May 1915 France, Picintin Battn relieved by the 1/4th Cameron Highlanders and occupied support trenches between RUE DE BACQUEROT and RUE DE TILLELOY. Draft of 52 NCOs and men joined. https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/wardiary.php...5&year=1915 This would make the 2nd battalion a good possibility, but there is nothing like checking the Medal rolls to be sure! Now we know who he was we are in a better position to contact the Regimental Museum (via the above website) and ask what information they might have on him. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 November , 2007 Share Posted 2 November , 2007 There I go blinking wrong again!! He was with the 1st Battalion - just goes to show that you can take wrong turns by fitting a few facts in the wrong places. Here he is apppearing in the Times casualty lists: This was in the Times of 22nd September 1915. These casualties were reported from the Base in France on 5th September 1915. They would have occurred about a month before the edition of the Times, i.e. 22nd August 1915 give or take a week or so. A man in the same battalion is shown as killed further up the list: Name: STRETCH Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Wiltshire Regiment Unit Text: 1st Bn Date of Death: 27/08/1915 Service No: 18741 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Union St. Graveyard No. 1 Cem. Mem. 18. Cemetery: BIRR CROSS ROADS CEMETERY So Albert may have been wounded around that date (27th August 1915). Again from the Wardrobe website: 1st Wiltshire Friday 27th August 1915 Belgium, Hooge B Coy relieved C Coy in MINE CRATER. Orders were received to occupy and fortify an old advanced trench running in front of STABLES and connect up with 2nd S Lancs, who had to dig up to the stables. A Coy were detailed for this operation. A bombing party occupied this trench after dusk and the working party commenced digging having reached the stables. A very heavy bomb throwing duel ensued, our grenadiers throwing some 500 bombs at the advanced German trench. Bombing activities hindered work on defences but the trench was occupied up to the stables and handed to relieving unit RIR at 2.30a.m. who placed a small garrison in it. The Battn was relieved by RIR and returned to bivouacs NW of DICKEBUSCHE. Casualties 1 killed, 7 wounded. https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/wardiary.php...8&year=1915 Note that the extract for the 27th August 1915 shows 7 wounded, 1 killed. The dead man is obviously Pte. Stretch but the Times list shows 20 men wounde, so only a 1 in 3 chance of Albert being wounded on this particular day... The 1st Wiltshires entered the trenches at Hooge for another tour of duty on the vening of the 24th August 1915. Casualties 25-8-1915 - 14 casualties from shellfire. 26-8-1915 - 3 casualties, possibly from a party of men attempting to put up barbed wire in front of their trench. 27-8-1915 - Per extract above, 1 killed, 7 casualties. Battalion exit from the trenches to go to rest. So I suspect that Albert was wounded on one of these three days.... Take your pick! If he was discharged in 1916, then this may have been his disabling wound, or he may have gone back again, of course. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 2 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2007 There I go blinking wrong again!! He was with the 1st Battalion - just goes to show that you can take wrong turns by fitting a few facts in the wrong places. Here he is apppearing in the Times casualty lists: This was in the Times of 22nd September 1915. These casualties were reported from the Base in France on 5th September 1915. They would have occurred about a month before the edition of the Times, i.e. 22nd August 1915 give or take a week or so. A man in the same battalion is shown as killed further up the list: Name: STRETCH Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Wiltshire Regiment Unit Text: 1st Bn Date of Death: 27/08/1915 Service No: 18741 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Union St. Graveyard No. 1 Cem. Mem. 18. Cemetery: BIRR CROSS ROADS CEMETERY So Albert may have been wounded around that date (27th August 1915). Again from the Wardrobe website: https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/wardiary.php...8&year=1915 Note that the extract for the 27th August 1915 shows 7 wounded, 1 killed. The dead man is obviously Pte. Stretch but the Times list shows 20 men wounde, so only a 1 in 3 chance of Albert being wounded on this particular day... The 1st Wiltshires entered the trenches at Hooge for another tour of duty on the vening of the 24th August 1915. Casualties 25-8-1915 - 14 casualties from shellfire. 26-8-1915 - 3 casualties, possibly from a party of men attempting to put up barbed wire in front of their trench. 27-8-1915 - Per extract above, 1 killed, 7 casualties. Battalion exit from the trenches to go to rest. So I suspect that Albert was wounded on one of these three days.... Take your pick! If he was discharged in 1916, then this may have been his disabling wound, or he may have gone back again, of course. Steve. Hi Steve, wow, thats wonderful information.Thank you so much.My elderly father in law will be very pleased to find out more about his father during the Great war. You've done a lot of hard work on my behalf.Thank you very much. SusanPatricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 November , 2007 Share Posted 3 November , 2007 Interestingly, Albert's Wiltshire Regiment number equates to one that would be issue around the time he went overseas (e.g. 19548 was issued 23-4-1915). This may mean that he was either a fully trained soldier and rejoined and went overseas upon rejoining, or that he was already serving in the Army with a different Regiment and transferred just prior to embarking to France. What details does his wedding certificate give, by the way? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 3 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2007 Interestingly, Albert's Wiltshire Regiment number equates to one that would be issue around the time he went overseas (e.g. 19548 was issued 23-4-1915). This may mean that he was either a fully trained soldier and rejoined and went overseas upon rejoining, or that he was already serving in the Army with a different Regiment and transferred just prior to embarking to France. What details does his wedding certificate give, by the way? Steve. Hi Steve, Unfortunately I don't have the wedding certificate I only know that they married in the 1/4 of 1915 which means they married in Jan,Feb or March.It might be worth getting the certificate to see what it says. Funny you should say that about the number.My father in law was absolutely certain his father was in the Ox and Bucks until I read the engraving round the edge of his medals.Perhaps he was transferred?What do you think?Could you find out? I thought the regimental number always stayed the same or have I got that wrong. Many thanks, SusanPatricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 November , 2007 Share Posted 3 November , 2007 Army numbers that were unique to one man were not introduced until the 1920s. In the Great War each Regiment allocated it's own numbers, usually from one sequential series, but there were sometimes other series within a Regiment (e.g. for "Pal's Battalions", or for Territorials - neither of which apply to Albert). If you do get the marriage certificate, he would almost certainly have been training in the Army so it should tell us his Regiment and possibly number. I assume this is him: Name: Albert C Green, Year of Registration: 1915, Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, District: Wycombe, Spouses name : Elsie Collins, Volume: 3a, Page: 1420 For the record: Birth Certificate references are : Name: Albert Cecil Green, Year of Registration: 1890, Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, District: Wallingford, County: Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Volume: 2c, Page: 313 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 3 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2007 Army numbers that were unique to one man were not introduced until the 1920s. In the Great War each Regiment allocated it's own numbers, usually from one sequential series, but there were sometimes other series within a Regiment (e.g. for "Pal's Battalions", or for Territorials - neither of which apply to Albert). If you do get the marriage certificate, he would almost certainly have been training in the Army so it should tell us his Regiment and possibly number. I assume this is him: Name: Albert C Green, Year of Registration: 1915, Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, District: Wycombe, Spouses name : Elsie Collins, Volume: 3a, Page: 1420 For the record: Birth Certificate references are : Name: Albert Cecil Green, Year of Registration: 1890, Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, District: Wallingford, County: Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Volume: 2c, Page: 313 Steve. Hi Steve, Yes thats him.Elsie Collins was my husbands grandmother. well they say you learn something everyday and I certainly didn't know anything about the numbers changing from regiment to regiment until the 1920's. Is there anyway you can trace where and when he "took the Kings shilling",so to speak?Is that a matter of record? Thanks for all your help so far. SusanPatricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaG Posted 5 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2007 Hi Steve, Yes thats him.Elsie Collins was my husbands grandmother. well they say you learn something everyday and I certainly didn't know anything about the numbers changing from regiment to regiment until the 1920's. Is there anyway you can trace where and when he "took the Kings shilling",so to speak?Is that a matter of record? Thanks for all your help so far. SusanPatricia Hi everyone, I'm going to put a new post to see if anyone can trace when and where he signed up. So don't reply on this post or the work mught be done twice. SusanPatricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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