JulianB Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 I've seen the odd photograph of, I think mostly officers wearing, steel helmets with regimental badges painted on the front. (as opposed to divisional etc) Does anybody know where I could see further examples, original photos and an example today. I don't know much about helmet types - has anyone done a book or whatever on this topic (badges on helmets) - though I'll look up the Haselgrove & Radovic books that were recommended. What I'd really like to see is one with Kings Rgt on the front thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 There are some good pictures in Haselgrove's 'Helmets of the First World War' but they are mostly divisional painted Brodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 Julian. Not sure how clear the attached scan will be but is from The Osprey book " The Kings Regiment" and shows a party of Kings men ( other ranks) halted for a meal near Ypres in 1917. You can clearly( or not if the scan is poor )see the Kings Liverpool badges on at least two of the soldiers. I once had a WW1 helmet with the Manchester Regt badge on it.The original fixing had been removed and replaced by 2 small nuts and bolts. I also at one time ( many years ago ) had a tin hat with a stencilled 6th Kings badge on the front,stupidly ( and still regretting it ),I let it go , I dont know if it was WW1 or WW2. As you know I have a helmet with a transfer of the post 1926 Kings regiment cap badge on it. Sorry cant help further. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy 60th Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 I've seen the odd photograph of, I think mostly officers wearing, steel helmets with regimental badges painted on the front. (as opposed to divisional etc) Does anybody know where I could see further examples, original photos and an example today. I don't know much about helmet types - has anyone done a book or whatever on this topic (badges on helmets) - though I'll look up the Haselgrove & Radovic books that were recommended. What I'd really like to see is one with Kings Rgt on the front thanks Hi Julian Paddy 60th here. I'm still reeling after the fantastic response from 'Promenade' to my enquiry about my relative in The Kings. I have a WW1 Brodie Shell with a Kings cap badge affixed to the front. see the attached image. Not a painted badge as you requested but hope it is of interest. The condition is not brilliant but it is quite solid . It was originally found attached to a wooden plaque which I still have. It was found at a boot sale in Liverpool so I was led to believe. I have a few Brodies with insignias which I have acquired over the years and will always be happy to post pictures on the site if anyone is interested. Regards, Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 IIRC there was a Suffolk R one in the IWM when I visited as a kid{that was a long time ago} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 25 September , 2007 Share Posted 25 September , 2007 Here is an original painted helmet with the Buffs badge. The Ace of Spades on the back of the helmet is the sign of the 12th Division, so that this helmet would have been worn by a soldier in the 6th battalion the Buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 26 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2007 Thanks very much guys, all intertesting stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 26 September , 2007 Share Posted 26 September , 2007 Hi, To add to the debate, one from my collection. Not regimental but Divisional....29th? Like all these things I believe it to be contemporary to WW1 and I bought it from a dealer who I know well and help at militaria fairs. One must be so careful these days and trust ones instincts! I have a KOYLI badged helmet and also a lovely Canadien artillery helmet with badge and Div flashes painted on. Will post piccies if needed. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 26 September , 2007 Share Posted 26 September , 2007 TT That certainly looks like 29 Div. The flattened triangle is quite distinctive. The sign is one of the (if not the) earliest div signs known to have been worn, appearing as early as the Somme fighting of 1916. It was worn on the uniform and the helmet. I for one would be interested to see the KOYLI helmet if you get a moment to post a pic. Regards, Wainfleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 27 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2007 That's a point; when did they start painting badges (of various types) on helmets. sorry to be ignorant but helmets were introduced ?? 1915 Are they all painted ?, I don't suppose they had transfers then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 27 September , 2007 Share Posted 27 September , 2007 Heres the KOYLI helmet. What the photo does not show and it is almost all gone is what appears to be an elongated yellow triangle / hackle painted to the left hand side as you look at the pictire. The interior of the helmet has traces of the early apple grey / green paint left. I am not sure if this helmet is a early rimless. It has no rim now but I think the paint shows it once did. Did the retro fit rims to the earlier helmets? Julian, I cant answer the above question. I know that some helmets were painted by the Somme so it must have started fairly early on when helmets were no longer trench stores issued to the frontline troops. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 27 September , 2007 Share Posted 27 September , 2007 Wainfleet, Whats the provenace on the 12th Div helmet. Very rare! Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 27 September , 2007 Share Posted 27 September , 2007 Julian, Cannot help with insignia but the very first Brodies were trialled late summer of 1915. More in this topic: steel helmets, when were they introduced Worth having a look at these other previous Brodie topics, endless info there: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...hlite=%2Bbrodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 27 September , 2007 Share Posted 27 September , 2007 TT The 6 Buffs/12 Div helmet turned up at Nottingham Arms Fair in the mid-80s. Even then certain people were painting badges and div signs on plain helmets, but this one was obviously right when you handled it. It went, along with the rest of my collection, when I sold up about 20 years ago. Many years later I was surprised to see it on a dealer's website, with a photo that made it look horrible. I bought it, and it was prised out of me by another collector in a trade. Eventually I was able to trade it back out of him, and I'm now hoping to keep it indefinitely. I've seen several other 12 Div Brodies. I think the whole Div must have been wearing them by the war's end. I've also seen a 2nd Hants Brodie, last patt/last liner so quite late, with the 29 Div sign on the front (or back?) and the Hants Bn sign on the side. Both signs were edged in white paint, but to my thinking the lack of that doesn't mean anything; it just depended on how artistic the painter was feeling. I like the KOYLI Brodie. The paintwork and badge are very similar to my only other badged Brodie, which belonged to a Lieutenant in 2/5 Lancs Fusiliers. I've found that now and then the rimless version shows this strange pattern round the edge, I don't know why, and since there's no sign of bare steel on yours I'd guess it's always been that way. Or maybe a rim was retrofitted, came off during its service life and the helmet was painted over again. Wainfleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brodie Guard Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 Hello, Another 12th Div painted helmet West Surrey Rgt. It came from the Mons (Belgium) area Cheers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 I posted this the other day on another thread, but definately relevent here. It is a Royal Engineers transfer. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 Guy I've always wondered whether transfers were worn during the War or are a later feature. The helmets soldiered on for a long while after. I suppose there is no reason for them not to be wartime, only I am a bit prejudiced against them because some transfers I've seen are very gaudy and not exactly "trenchy". However I am prepared to modify this view, especially if faced with evidence or reasoned argument! Regards W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 W I'm not sure that question could ever be answered. A few points though, the army is seldom consistent, and markings on helmets would be applied by whatever expedient that may have been required. The quality of that application, would also very much depend in their use. Scenario 1: 300 helmets issued behind Albert in 1916 and unloaded onto a platform for troop issue. Need to have regimental markings for coming attack....here you are lads, here is your helmet, paint and brushes at the end table. You can't get your dinner till it is done right. Scenario 2: Delegation of Royal Engineers required to turn out for Kings visit in 2 months time. 12 men in special section to be inspected by King, before he is escorted on to elswhere. Details of dress and helmet decals worked on for ages, to make an impression. The latter could be in UK, or indeed in Buckingham Palace for all we know. I suspect you will find a hundred different types of decals, paint and everything else, probably 75 of which will be fakes either old or new, either for profit, or perhaps innocent phoneys for theatre or film. (I wonder how many ex Dad's Army uniforms are in people's collections as real?) All I can say about the RE transfer is, that it is definately not a fake, but could indeed be inter war, but could just as equally likely be WW1. I have owned it for 30 years, and paid about one pound for it, so am confident as I can be that it is not a phoney. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 Oh go on then - here's a few: 1. 428 Company: No. 1 (HQ) Coy ASC, 42nd Div Train. 2. TMB, named to a member of the Royal Munster Fusiliers. 3. Named to a member of the Devons - sadly a common name to the regt, so no more detail available - and inscribed under the brim with a list of engagements. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 And a few more: 4. Named and numbered to a member of the Mounted Military Police, 2nd Cavalry Division. 5. Black Watch, with green (company? brigade?) band around the brim. 6. Unknown, War Office Pattern - possibly early 48th Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 And finally: 7. Unknown Rifles regiment. 8. Unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 Grovetown Many thanks for sharing. Good collection!! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Many thanks for sharing. Good collection!! Thanks for that. GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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