Royal Field Artillery (RFA) in Mesopotamia.

[seldom.wright1@virgin.net]

I have been researching my family tree and have been informed by my father that his father was in the RFA in Mesopotamia.

I am keen to learn more about this conflict from the RFA perspective, units etc who were posted there.

Any information and tips would be most appreciated.

Many thanks

Graham Wright

[sotonmate]

Graham

Here is a briefing from the Long Long Trail at top left of this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/mesopot.htm

I will stooge around and see if there is anything else I can put your way.

Best wishes,and I should welcome you to the Forum !

Sotonmate

[sotonmate]

Graham

If you have other information and it was posted here you might find an expert who can assist you better than I. For the moment another place to read. Go to the Long Long Trail and click on it.Once in click on "search' and on the next screen enter "RFA in Mesopotamia" in the search box. You will get a few articles on the subject.

Sotonmate

[Ron]

I have been researching my family tree and have been informed by my father that his father was in the RFA in Mesopotamia.

I am keen to learn more about this conflict from the RFA perspective, units etc who were posted there.

Any information and tips would be most appreciated.

Many thanks

Graham Wright

See my book 'Battles on the Tigris. Ron Wilcox. Pen and Sword.

Ron

[seldom.wright1@virgin.net]

Graham

If you have other information and it was posted here you might find an expert who can assist you better than I. For the moment another place to read. Go to the Long Long Trail and click on it.Once in click on "search' and on the next screen enter "RFA in Mesopotamia" in the search box. You will get a few articles on the subject.

Sotonmate

Sotonmate,

Thanks for the help. I will have a trawl through some of the links to see what I can find.

Regards

Graham

[seldom.wright1@virgin.net]

See my book 'Battles on the Tigris. Ron Wilcox. Pen and Sword.

Ron

Ron,

Thanks for this. I will go out and source this.

Would you or anyone else know how recruitment for the RFA was carried out? I am particulary interested in men from the Midlothian / Edinburgh area and what units they would have ended up in.

Regards

Graham

[Hoplophile]

There were three ways to join the RFA in the first year or so of World War I. Direct enlistment into the Regular Army got a soldier sent to one the Reserve Brigades, RFA for training and, once that was accomplished, to whatever battery needed men. Thus, place of enlistment, regional affiliation, etc had little or no effect on where one ended up. Enlistment into a New Army field artillery unit (i.e. one of field artillery brigades of a New Army division) or a Territorial Force field artillery unit put a soldier into a unit with a strong regional affiliation. Thus, the first places that you want to look are the Territorial Force and New Army divisions with connections to the area in question.

The first place you want to look is the short divisional histories provided on the Long, Long Trail. These will give you a sense of which divisions were affiliated with particular locations. For very specific information about Territorial Force units, you may also want to look at Mark Conrad's excellent site on the British Army in 1914.

This little exploration will not provide any specific answers, but will give you a short list of RFA units with strong connections to particular localities. You can then cross-reference this list to the list of RFA units that served in Mesopotamia.

Good hunting!

[Robert Dunlop]

Farndale's book 'The Royal Regiment of Artillery: The Forgotten Fronts and the Home Base 1914-18' will give you a very good insight into the RFA in Mesopotamia. It includes lists of units that served in particular battles, along with details of those battles from an artillery perspective. Some interesting photographs as well. Highly recommended.

Robert

[eyes]

Good day to all

Now here's the question, though perhaps I have the wrong forum (If so, my sincere regrets) I am chasing the 267th (Cheshire) Bde, RFA and have cornered them somewhere in France in about 1915. Then, they renamed themselves the 265th. Then, they presumably went off to Egypt to rejoin the 53rd Div, though, perhaps not. At least some (including my Grandfather) appear to have stayed in France as part of D Bty, 245 Bde RFA. But wait. That can't be right. (It was right about here that serious drinking began)

Anyone with a hint or clue as to the here again gone again travels of 267th (Cheshire) Bde, RFA (and the sub-elements thereof) has themselves an assured welcome in Ottawa Canada.

Colin Affleck

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

[Hoplophile]

Welcome, Colin!

You clearly have skipped the easy-question kiddie pool and headed straight for the deep end.

The divisional artillery of the 53rd (Welsh) Division had a most unusual career. The short version of the story is that it started the war with a standard Territorial Force structure: three field gun brigades (each of three four-gun batteries) and one howitzer brigade (of two four-piece batteries). It retained this structure until Christmas of 1916, when it was reorganized into two mixed brigades and a small field gun brigade. Each of the two mixed brigades had two six-gun field gun batteries and one four-piece howitzer battery. The small field gun brigade had two six-gun field gun batteries.

As was the case with other pre-war Territorial Force divisions, the batteries and brigades of the divisional artillery had distinctive names:

I Welsh (Howitzer) Brigade consisted of 1 Glamorgan (Howitzer) Battery and 2 Glamorgan (Howitzer) Battery

II Welsh Brigade consisted of 3 Glamorgan Battery, 4 Glamorgan Battery and the Cardigan Battery.

The Cheshire Brigade consisted of 1 Cheshire Battery, 2 Cheshire Battery and 3 Cheshire Battery.

III Welsh Brigade consisted of 1 Monmouth Battery, 2 Monmouth Battery and 3 Monmouth Battery.

In May of 1916, the brigades were given numbers and the batteries given letters.

I Welsh (Howitzer) Brigade became 265 (Howitzer) Brigade (with two batteries: A and B )

II Welsh Brigade became 266 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

The Cheshire Brigade became 267 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

III Welsh Brigade became 268 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

At Christmas 1916, the brigades were renumbered.

The old 265 (Howitzer) Brigade was disbanded

The old 266 Brigade became the new 267 Brigade

The old 267 Brigade became the new 265 Brigade

The old 268 Brigade became the new 266 Brigade

At the same time, one of the four-gun field gun batteries in each of the field gun brigades was broken up. The elements made available by this break up were used to convert the remaining field gun batteries into six-gun units.

One of the howitzer batteries made available by the disbandment of the old howitzer brigade was assigned to the new 265 Brigade, the other to the new 266 Brigade. (267 got its howitzer battery in 1918.)

The 53rd (Welsh) Division spent the first year of the war in the UK. In the summer of 1915, the division (except for the divisional artillery) went to Gallipoli. In December of 1915, after suffering very heavy losses, it was withdrawn to Egypt, where it would later be reunited with its artillery. The division spent the rest of the war in Egypt and Palestine.

The divisional artillery spent most of the second half of 1915 in the UK. During the last five weeks or so of 1915, it served as the divisional artillery for the 32nd Division, a New Army formation that had recently arrived in France. (At that time, the 32nd Division was awaiting the arrival of its divisional artillery.)

***

245 Brigade was part of the divisional artillery of the 49th (West Riding) Division. It went to France in April of 1915 and remained on the Western Front until the end of the war.

D/245 was a howitzer battery that began the war as 11 West Riding (Howitzer) Battery of IV West Riding (Howitzer) Battery.

***

Having written all of this, the way your grandfather got from the Cheshire Brigade to D/245 Brigade does not seem to have anything to do with the various changes undergone by either unit. Rather, I offer the following possibilities:

1. Your grandfather was wounded, injured or otherwise incapacitated shortly before the Cheshire Brigade left for Egypt. By the time he had recovered, his original unit was far away, and so he was assigned to a unit on the Western Front.

3. Your grandfather was a specialist of some sort (a shoeing smith, perhaps) who was transferred to France in order to remedy a dire shortage of specialists of his type.

[eyes]

Welcome, Colin!

You clearly have skipped the easy-question kiddie pool and headed straight for the deep end.

The divisional artillery of the 53rd (Welsh) Division had a most unusual career. The short version of the story is that it started the war with a standard Territorial Force structure: three field gun brigades (each of three four-gun batteries) and one howitzer brigade (of two four-piece batteries). It retained this structure until Christmas of 1916, when it was reorganized into two mixed brigades and a small field gun brigade. Each of the two mixed brigades had two six-gun field gun batteries and one four-piece howitzer battery. The small field gun brigade had two six-gun field gun batteries.

As was the case with other pre-war Territorial Force divisions, the batteries and brigades of the divisional artillery had distinctive names:

I Welsh (Howitzer) Brigade consisted of 1 Glamorgan (Howitzer) Battery and 2 Glamorgan (Howitzer) Battery

II Welsh Brigade consisted of 3 Glamorgan Battery, 4 Glamorgan Battery and the Cardigan Battery.

The Cheshire Brigade consisted of 1 Cheshire Battery, 2 Cheshire Battery and 3 Cheshire Battery.

III Welsh Brigade consisted of 1 Monmouth Battery, 2 Monmouth Battery and 3 Monmouth Battery.

In May of 1916, the brigades were given numbers and the batteries given letters.

I Welsh (Howitzer) Brigade became 265 (Howitzer) Brigade (with two batteries: A and B )

II Welsh Brigade became 266 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

The Cheshire Brigade became 267 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

III Welsh Brigade became 268 Brigade (with three batteries: A, B, and C)

At Christmas 1916, the brigades were renumbered.

The old 265 (Howitzer) Brigade was disbanded

The old 266 Brigade became the new 267 Brigade

The old 267 Brigade became the new 265 Brigade

The old 268 Brigade became the new 266 Brigade

At the same time, one of the four-gun field gun batteries in each of the field gun brigades was broken up. The elements made available by this break up were used to convert the remaining field gun batteries into six-gun units.

One of the howitzer batteries made available by the disbandment of the old howitzer brigade was assigned to the new 265 Brigade, the other to the new 266 Brigade. (267 got its howitzer battery in 1918.)

The 53rd (Welsh) Division spent the first year of the war in the UK. In the summer of 1915, the division (except for the divisional artillery) went to Gallipoli. In December of 1915, after suffering very heavy losses, it was withdrawn to Egypt, where it would later be reunited with its artillery. The division spent the rest of the war in Egypt and Palestine.

The divisional artillery spent most of the second half of 1915 in the UK. During the last five weeks or so of 1915, it served as the divisional artillery for the 32nd Division, a New Army formation that had recently arrived in France. (At that time, the 32nd Division was awaiting the arrival of its divisional artillery.)

***

245 Brigade was part of the divisional artillery of the 49th (West Riding) Division. It went to France in April of 1915 and remained on the Western Front until the end of the war.

D/245 was a howitzer battery that began the war as 11 West Riding (Howitzer) Battery of IV West Riding (Howitzer) Battery.

***

Having written all of this, the way your grandfather got from the Cheshire Brigade to D/245 Brigade does not seem to have anything to do with the various changes undergone by either unit. Rather, I offer the following possibilities:

1. Your grandfather was wounded, injured or otherwise incapacitated shortly before the Cheshire Brigade left for Egypt. By the time he had recovered, his original unit was far away, and so he was assigned to a unit on the Western Front.

3. Your grandfather was a specialist of some sort (a shoeing smith, perhaps) who was transferred to France in order to remedy a dire shortage of specialists of his type.

Wow! Thats good. I have spent months trying to dredge up exactly that information. And there it is. I am told he was but a humble Driver and so your first possibility may have capped it. Thats terrific. Many thanks. Next time you are floating through Ottawa, the drinks are on me.

Colin Affleck

[Hoplophile]

You are quite welcome! I do find myself in Ottawa from time to time, so I will be sure to take you up on your kind offer.

The fact that your grandfather was a driver explains one of the anomalies that I was hard pressed to resolve, the fact that he started the war in a field gun unit, but ended it in a howitzer battery. From what I have seen, the RFA seems to have made a point of keeping howitzer gunners in howitzer units and field gun gunners in field gun units. (Among other things, the handling of howitzer ammunition was very different from the handling of field gun ammunition.) There was no reason, however, to do the same for drivers, as the duties that defined their specialty involved horses and vehicles.

[George Lee Temple]

I've been trying to find out about the 388th Battery RFA as I have a (potential) relative you died in Basra in August 1917 when serving with this unit as a driver.

However, 388th Battery seems to be missing from all lists of RFA units, including those for Mespot in Farndale's 'Forgotten Fronts & Home Base', although there are batteries with higher numbers.

The 388th Battery atributation comes the Commonwealth War Graves : could this be a typo ?

[BabaAndrew]

On 06/06/2014 at 11:35, George Lee Temple said:

I've been trying to find out about the 388th Battery RFA as I have a (potential) relative you died in Basra in August 1917 when serving with this unit as a driver.

However, 388th Battery seems to be missing from all lists of RFA units, including those for Mespot in Farndale's 'Forgotten Fronts & Home Base', although there are batteries with higher numbers.

The 388th Battery atributation comes the Commonwealth War Graves : could this be a typo ?

Thought you might be interested in seeing this photo of a sub-section of 388th Battery RFA.  See https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174529375806

 

 

[David Porter]

Thanks BabaAndrew. As proven by the photo, there definitely was a 388th Battery RFA. It was formed at Harrogate in December 1916 and moved to Larkhill by the end of May 1917. As part of a new 30th Brigade RFA, the battery disembarked at Basra on August 16, 1917. However, it was broken up to A/55, C/56 and C/66 in November 1917, which is probably why it is missing from the listings.

[George Lee Temple]

My relative was posted in  to 388th Battery from the Ammunition Column of 69th (2nd East Anglian) Division. Sending reinforcements from Britain to Mespot at the hottest time of the year wasn't the best idea which is probably why 895427 Driver Edwards died of heatstroke not long after arrival.

 

388th Battery may not have existed for very long, but that is no excuse for its ommission from Farndale's 'Forgotten Fronts & Home Base'.