Martin Bennitt Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 We are told that the wheels attached to the rear (stern?) of the Mark I tank were to aid steering, and I wondered how this was supposed to work. Presumably it didn't as they were soon dropped. Were they just trailing wheels, or were they powered in some way? They look somewhat unwieldy and effectively just extra weight to haul by a machine that was underpowered in any case. Grateful your input. thanks and cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 I've always wondered how they did (or were supposed to) work. Something similar is a feature of a number of pre tank designs (unbuilt) and were fitted to Little Willy so trials were obviously carried out. The early gun carriers had them as well. Not powered but possibly differential braking? I can see no way they could be used as a 'rudder'. I wonder if the tank driver had extra controls for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 The two wheels had linked track-rods, so they could be steered to left or right, moving like the front wheels of a car. The track-rod was turned by cables passing round a bobbin on the driver's steering-wheel. It was thought that these wheels would help in normal steering - minor corrections to left or right when the tank was moving forward with both tracks turning. 16 large springs kept the wheels in contact with the ground and there was a hydraulic jack system which could raise them as required, such as when the tank wanted to turn on its own axis, which was achieved by putting one track into neutral and letting the other turn. In the field, it was discovered that minor corrections could be achieved simply by use of the brakes and I think this is why the wheels were abandoned in later models. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 In the field, it was discovered that minor corrections could be achieved simply by use of the brakes and I think this is why the wheels were abandoned in later models. Tom I've never been able to make out how the wheels could turn as they don't appear to be on stub axles as on a car - but then decent pictures or drawings of them are not something I've been able to locate. I believe that the experience of tanks on the Somme that had the wheels shot away or otherwise damaged (a la Creme De Menth) without experiencing any added steering difficulties that convinced people of their redundancy. However despite this there are accounts of the wheels being removed from Mk Is only on the eve of Arras which would suggest that the powers that be may have taken a long time to convince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Moore Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 W.M. Rossiter has written an article on how to drive a MkI tank which sheds some light on this question. The steering tail seen on the first tanks betrays their origin in pre-war agricultural tractors, with the front steering wheels of those machines (e.g. the Holt tractors) transposed to the rear of the tank. "Little Willie", the predecessor to the lozenge shaped tanks, was intended to be steered by tail wheels but even at the time of its trials d'Eyncourt noted that it could be steered by tracks alone. When a lozenge-shaped tank such as the MkI was travelling on firm ground, with only about the central 5 feet of the track length in contact with the ground, a turning radius of about 60 feet could be achieved using the wheels alone. This kind of ideal ground surface was rare in practice, and with a greater length of tracks buried in soft ground wheeled steering was ineffective. An additional benefit of the steering tail was to increase the width of trenches which could be crossed from 10 feet to 11 and a half feet, although this required some precise timing in raising and lowering the tail. The hubs of the tail wheels pivotted on stub axles projecting from the tail frame. This rather flimsy arrangement was a frequent source of breakage, and the poor construction of the steering tail was an early source of discord between Wilson and Stern. A number of the photos of MkI wrecks on the Somme show that their tail units have been recovered to repair other tanks. Centurion, I have a good photo of the stub axle arrangement which shows how it works - PM me if you would like a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 I believe that the experience of tanks on the Somme that had the wheels shot away or otherwise damaged (a la Creme De Menth) without experiencing any added steering difficulties that convinced people of their redundancy. Blowers in D5 "Dolphin" lost the wheels before he left Delville Wood and still managed to get halfway between Flers and Gueudecourt, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 I dunno if these photos will help but ,this hand made replica model,follows original plans down to the 64th of an inch. The 'steering drag wheels are pretty clear.Its all hand rivetted ,by the way . & no. I didn't do it.But I'm waiting on a kit to do one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 2 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2007 That makes it all much clearer, which photographs, usually taken from side on and from a distance, fail to do. The wheels, though obviously redundant, were quite a substantial piece of mechanism. So, as I said, a good deal of extra weight to little purpose. Thanks to forum-ites as usual for enlightening me. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 I dunno if these photos will help but ,this hand made replica model,follows original plans down to the 64th of an inch. The 'steering drag wheels are pretty clear.Its all hand rivetted ,by the way . & no. I didn't do it.But I'm waiting on a kit to do one... Thats what give me the problem - those wheels are on a solid single axle and couldn't possibly be used to steer. I'll have to PM Gerald in the AM and have a look at his photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 Thats what give me the problem - those wheels are on a solid single axle and couldn't possibly be used to steer. I'll have to PM Gerald in the AM and have a look at his photo They were used to steer, as I said. Indeed, the solid axle did not move - the wheels did. Here's how it worked. On the photo below you can see the stub axle. Note that the inside of the wheel-hub is slotted, allowing it to move sideways. Below the rigid axle is a plate which fits into the slotted hub. This plate is connected to the steering-arm, which is visible beyond the angle of the x-frame, and both the plate and the steering-arm pivot together. The steering-arm is connected to the track rod, on the other end of which is a similar arrangement acting on the opposite wheel. When the track rod moves the steering-arm, the attached plate simply pushes the hub sideways on the stub-axle. The wheel, turning on the hub, is thus obliged to follow. The wheel on the other side is pushed the opposite way so you get them aligned like this /------/ or like this \------\ Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Moore Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 Tom has posted the same photo which I have Centurion, and explained how it works far better than I could. It's fairly easy to see why they broke so often. For interest, the diagram shows how the tiller rod was actuated, and a view of my much less shiny version of the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCER Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 Who makes the kit. I know Scale Link do a MK IV. But ive not seen a MK I. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Moore Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 The model is in 1/15 scale and is produced by David J. Parkins/Firing Line (www.djparkins.com). PanzerShop in the Czech Republic also produces a very nice resin model of this vehicle in 1/35 scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCER Posted 4 July , 2007 Share Posted 4 July , 2007 The model is in 1/15 scale and is produced by David J. Parkins/Firing Line (www.djparkins.com). PanzerShop in the Czech Republic also produces a very nice resin model of this vehicle in 1/35 scale. Many thanks for that info. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 4 July , 2007 Share Posted 4 July , 2007 The wheels also acted as a counter-balance and to asist in trench crossing. Found this on the Bovington site and thought you might be interested: http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/libraryphotoarchive.html ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCER Posted 5 July , 2007 Share Posted 5 July , 2007 The wheels also acted as a counter-balance and to asist in trench crossing. Avvast Found this on the Bovington site and thought you might be interested: http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/libraryphotoarchive.html ) the link is not workign - I find another way to show you Intresting photos Tank 742 became D7 took part in first use on 15th Sept. Was knocked out on 25th sept Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 5 July , 2007 Share Posted 5 July , 2007 I can't find 713 in my records; did it ever fight in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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