Lt Col E T Sandys 2nd Middlesex Regt

[Beau Geste]

On a recent visit to The Somme a friend and I visited Ovillers Military Cemetery and in the Register there someone had left a laminated sheet containing the following words:

"Let it be known your Battalion Commander, who made representations to try to protect you, and worried for you all 'before the battle' took his own life in London, devastated at losing you, 'after the battle' (sic).

I saw the Coroner's report:

'Suicide while temporarily insane'

At first that upset me. For if a person can die of a broken heart......then grief can kill a man.

And to say he was insane.......betrays the thoughts he couldn't share, that were REAL, RATIONAL and UNDERSTANDABLE,

But now we know.

Insanity was actually the Order of The Day on The Somme in 1916.

We will Remember You !

Lt Col Edwin Thomas Falkiner Sandys

Buried at West Brompton Cemetery

East Portion Compartment 6."

My friend and I cry often during our visits to the the battlefields and this day was no exception. In my opinion Lt Col Sandys was a man of great humanity who cared, very deeply, for those for whom he was responsible. It has been my privilege to have known officers like that but, thankfully, none of them were ever put to the test as he was.

I would like your comments please.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

I have just been reading that excellent posting by StaffsReg on Lt Gen Congreve VC, a remarkable man by any standards, But I'm left wondering why pals, 26 of you as at 6.38 p.m. who are so passionate about the men and women who served in The Great War can read and comment on one man and read and, in a sense ignore, another. Was it the fact that he committed suicide that attracts what seems, up to now, to be such a negative response?

Sandys fears turned out to be justified as we all know. The second Middlesex were decimated losing 22 officers and 601 men in the attack. Sandys himself was seriously injured and it was while he was on leave recovering from the wounds he received on the 1st July that he decided to take his own life. He died on 13th September 1916.

Surely, there can be no question about his love and respect for his soldiers or about his own personal courage. I for one salute and pray for the man.

Harry

[Terry_Reeves]

Harry

Congreve's military career is well documented, your man's is not. If you can write him up a bit, you will no doubt get some response.

Terry Reeves

[Guest mruk]

Hello Harry,

I think you raise an interesting point, and it is time Sandys was remembered after almost ninety years. I can't say I know enough about the man, or the actions which may or may not have contributed to Sandys taking his own life, but if I may speak in general terms, then I would say that one of the resons why people are reluctant to comment is because of the connotatations that suicide still carries. It's almost a hangover from the nineteenth, let alone the twentieth century, and the exaggeration of the male role in combat and under stress. It's about expectations, where physical fear was judged as weak, and suicide treat no less differently. Would we have still held Sandys in the same silence if he had been a Rosenberg or Owen? I think not, and he should be revered and remembered as such. However, Terry may indeed be right, and it looks as if you've found yourself some interesting research Harry.

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Paul Reed]

I think it is worth pointing out that Sandys' story, and fate, has been in the public domain since the 1970s when his story appeared in Martin Middlebrook's 'First Day of the Somme'. It also featured in the 1976 Somme doco with Leo McKern. I must say it is a sad tale I have often related myself while on a tour; especially starting from the 2nd Middlesex jumping off positions in Mash Valley, and seeing what a kill zone that ground actually was.

Thanks to Peter Barton I finally got to see what Sandys looked like last year - his portrait appears in Peter's Somme book.

[trenchtrotter]

Beau Geste,

You are not alone. I know of Sandys story. It was one of the first things I ever learnt about the Somme (from Martin Middlebrooks book I think).

Anyhow, his story inspired me to purchase a 1915 trio to Alex William Reed one of his battalion who paid the price on 1/7/1916 and rests in Ovillers cemetery. I regularly visit his grave and as I sit viewing Mash Valley I often reflect on what torture Sandys suffered. He was equally a 1/7/1916 casualty. Reed was one of his "children"

Remembering.

TT

[Beau Geste]

Harry

Congreve's military career is well documented, your man's is not. If you can write him up a bit, you will no doubt get some response.

Terry Reeves

Thank you Terry. I think I'll get " some response " anyway. I recommend the Middlebrook book "First Day on the Somme" I guess it gives one enough knowledge to make a reasoned and sensitive contribution. But on one level of analysis this is surely a human rather than a purely empirical issue. Isn't there enough in the bare bones of Sandys' torment and the actions he took both on 1st July and subsequently to generate a discussion?

It would be a pity if the only issues we can discuss on this Forum are those we've studied in depth.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

Hello Harry,

I think you raise an interesting point, and it is time Sandys was remembered after almost ninety years. I can't say I know enough about the man, or the actions which may or may not have contributed to Sandys taking his own life, but if I may speak in general terms, then I would say that one of the resons why people are reluctant to comment is because of the connotatations that suicide still carries. It's almost a hangover from the nineteenth, let alone the twentieth century, and the exaggeration of the male role in combat and under stress. It's about expectations, where physical fear was judged as weak, and suicide treat no less differently. Would we have still held Sandys in the same silence if he had been a Rosenberg or Owen? I think not, and he should be revered and remembered as such. However, Terry may indeed be right, and it looks as if you've found yourself some interesting research Harry.

Kind Regards,

Dave

Thank you Dave,

I love the question you pose as to whether or not our attitudes would be different if Sandys had been an eminent war poet. Wilfred Owen for example, was no stranger to a fear of the most debilitating kind. Indeed it can be argued that the years he spent on the front where years of torment as he fought against the self belief that he might be a coward. Of course he wasn't as his actions on the canal near Ors proved. But that was precisely why I posted this particular topic. Fear was something that walked in the shadows of most (all?) those who fought in The Great War. How people handled it is surely a valid subject on this Forum. Some, like Congreve handled it magnificently and won a Victoria Cross. Others, and Sandy is included here to some extent were destroyed by it. I say to some extent because Sandys never hid in a funk hole, never turned his back on his duty. He did what was asked of him and it was only later that he found it impossible to live with the consquences.

Thank you for you contribution,

Harry

[Beau Geste]

I think it is worth pointing out that Sandys' story, and fate, has been in the public domain since the 1970s when his story appeared in Martin Middlebrook's 'First Day of the Somme'. It also featured in the 1976 Somme doco with Leo McKern. I must say it is a sad tale I have often related myself while on a tour; especially starting from the 2nd Middlesex jumping off positions in Mash Valley, and seeing what a kill zone that ground actually was.

Thanks to Peter Barton I finally got to see what Sandys looked like last year - his portrait appears in Peter's Somme book.

Thanks Paul

Every time I go to The Somme I stand on the site of Keats Redan and look up Mash Valley towards Ovillers. I know it's silly but I suppose we all do it from time to time - I try to put myself in the position Sandy's and his soldiers (and others) found themselves in on that beautiful July morning and I pray for him and them.

The one thing I have never done is attach blame to what he did in that hotel room.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

Beau Geste,

You are not alone. I know of Sandys story. It was one of the first things I ever learnt about the Somme (from Martin Middlebrooks book I think).

Anyhow, his story inspired me to purchase a 1915 trio to Alex William Reed one of his battalion who paid the price on 1/7/1916 and rests in Ovillers cemetery. I regularly visit his grave and as I sit viewing Mash Valley I often reflect on what torture Sandys suffered. He was equally a 1/7/1916 casualty. Reed was one of his "children"

Remembering.

TT

You're not alone believe me.

Harry

[Terry_Reeves]

Harry

You miss the point. You complained that nobody responded, but that happens to many posts on here, for various reasons. Quite clearly, many people do not know, or do not remember, his story. What I was suggesting is that you bring his story to life to promote interest.

Terry Reeves

[Beau Geste]

Harry

You miss the point. You complained that nobody responded, but that happens to many posts on here, for various reasons. Quite clearly, many people do not know, or do not remember, his story. What I was suggesting is that you bring his story to life to promote interest.

Terry Reeves

I'm sorry Terry I didn't realise you were asking me to "bring his story to life to promote interest"

I really don't think a lot is needed. On the one hand we have a highly competent and respected Lt Col, the commanding officer of the 2nd Bn The Middlesex Regiment, who on the eve of one of the greatest battles in history questioned the orders of his superiors. He had watched the preparations for the attack from an OP on Usna Hill and as the artillery bombardment progressed, day and night, he remained convinced that his superiors were wrong, that many German soldiers had survived the onslaught in their deep dugouts.

He expressed his fears at both Brigade and Divisional level but he was overruled

The first objective of the 2nd Middlesex were the German front line trenches in front of Ovillers. His battalion had the furthest to advance, a distance of about 700 metres. But on that fateful morning those young men will have felt it was a lot further than that I'm sure. They had to advance over the open ground of Mash Valley and they quickly became easy targets for the machine guns, artillery and rifle fire that smashed into them from three sides. Incredibly, some Middlesex men did reach the German trenches, but there is no doubt that it was a disaster. Sandy's worst fears had come to pass and The Regiment lost 22 officers and 601 ORs in the attack.

One can only ponder, with sympathy, how Sandys felt as he became increasingly aware of what was happening to his "beloved soldiers". He had lived with a premonition of this for days. He hadn't been able to sleep at night and as the last days of June 1916 passed, he had become more and more depressed and fearful.

He too was injured in the attack and later when on leave in London, recovering from his wounds, he took out his service revolver and shot himself.

A disaster yes but on the other hand it does offer us an opportunity to discuss a variety of relevant poits.

Firstly, there is the excellent point that Dave makes above when he draws attention to the "taboo" nature of suicide. The point that Terry made that "many people do not know or remember the story" is interesting in this respect. There isn't a lot of information on the event. Even the 2nd Battalion's War Diary has little to say about it. Could this be the reason? I personally applaud the man for his professionalism, his courage and his undoubted humanity.

Then there is the perennial question of the role of a soldier. Is he there to obey, to do as he's told whatever the issue or the likely consequences or should he be seen as a thinking, caring intelligent being who deserves to be heard and taken seriously. I seem to remember questions of this sort being asked during The Nuremburg Trials in the mid forties! After all, Sandys wasn't the only documented example of an officer questioning plans , albeit on a far smaller scale, laid down by a higher formation. Capt Duncan

Lennox Martin's attempt to persuade his superior's to "take out" the machinegun under The Shrine near Mansel Copse is a case in point. I realise of course that in the heat of battle certain priorities must exist but in both Martin''s and Sandys' case time was not a critical feature when the appeals were made.

I could go on but I think I've said enough to "bring the story to life".

Harry

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks, Harry

I think you've done more than enough to state Sandys' case and bring his 'story to life', and what you have said does beg the question of whether moral conscience is anathema or compatible to war, and that of war's objective to win at all costs--regardless of costs. I would suggest that the relationship is both difficult and ambiguous, and that it is not enough to question the legitimacy or illegitimacy of a superior's orders, but to remain indifferent. I also think that it was this indifference which Sandys wrestled with, and it was the rights and wrongs of the particular action on the Somme which led Sandys to take his own life. He certainly had nothing to reproach himself for, but I suspect that he felt powerless when any decision was taken from him, and he was compelled to comply and attack anyway. It's an unfortunate fact, but rational thought and moral reasoning don't really go hand in hand in war. This also includes the reason why some decided to end it all, as in the case of this young soldier who committed suicide because of taunts of 'effeminacy'. Again, a verdict of 'temporary insanity' was reached.

While undergoing detention for masquerading as a woman a soldier of the Liverpool Regiment, named...., shot himself at Aldershot on Sunday. At the inquest yesterday it was stated that he was a good soldier, but had been "ragged" for effeminacy. A verdict of "Suicide during temporary insanity" was returned.

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Beau Geste]

Many Thanks, Harry

I think you've done more than enough to state Sandys' case and bring his 'story to life', and what you have said does beg the question of whether moral conscience is anathema or compatible to war, and that of war's objective to win at all costs--regardless of costs. I would suggest that the relationship is both difficult and ambiguous, and that it is not enough to question the legitimacy or illegitimacy of a superior's orders, but to remain indifferent. I also think that it was this indifference which Sandys wrestled with, and it was the rights and wrongs of the particular action on the Somme which led Sandys to take his own life. He certainly had nothing to reproach himself for, but I suspect that he felt powerless when any decision was taken from him, and he was compelled to comply and attack anyway. It's an unfortunate fact, but rational thought and moral reasoning don't really go hand in hand in war. This also includes the reason why some decided to end it all, as in the case of this young soldier who committed suicide because of taunts of 'effeminacy'. Again, a verdict of 'temporary insanity' was reached.

While undergoing detention for masquerading as a woman a soldier of the Liverpool Regiment, named...., shot himself at Aldershot on Sunday. At the inquest yesterday it was stated that he was a good soldier, but had been "ragged" for effeminacy. A verdict of "Suicide during temporary insanity" was returned.

Kind Regards,

Dave

Yes, and yet codes of chivalry have always featured. Sometimes it has had to be imposed (for example The Geneva Convention) and sometimes it has just "happened." The literature on the Great War is replete with examples of this by both warring sides. I do, however, take your point that in time of severe stress it is man's basest instincts that tend to rise to the surface.

I like your 'argument' that his decision to take his own life was prompted by his inability to influence the decisions of his superiors . He might well have perceived this as an indicator of his own "weakness." I'm sure that as the battle approached he became more and more desperate. The knowledge that only he was in a position try to save them and yet, despite his best efforts, he had failed.....well, it must have driven him almost mad.

There were though other commanding officers at that time who probably had doubts similar to those that were tormenting Sandys and ultimately destroyed him. The 2nd Lincolns lost 21 officers and 450 ORs, the 2nd Berkshires 27 officers and 347 ORs and the 2nd Devons lost 17 officers and 433 ORs. We don't know if the commanding officers of these battalions made the same sort of appeal as Sandys did prior to the attack. Nor is there any evidence to suggest that officers from these and other, equally hard hit units, took the same course of action as he did. In some cases they were killed in battle but not all of them were. They lived to fight another day.

What then was different about Sandys ?

[trenchtrotter]

A similar comparison...Charles Wittlesley, the "Lost Battalion" 77th Div AEF Argonne Forest 1918. A competant officer decorated but ultimatley commited suicide. In his case his story is well documented and his memory lives....why the difference? Both men victims of the Great War.

Both victims worthy of remembrance.

TT

[Beau Geste]

A similar comparison...Charles Wittlesley, the "Lost Battalion" 77th Div AEF Argonne Forest 1918. A competant officer decorated but ultimatley commited suicide. In his case his story is well documented and his memory lives....why the difference? Both men victims of the Great War.

Both victims worthy of remembrance.

TT

Thanks for that. I have to admit I haven't read "The lost Battalion". From what you say Tim there was something "eating away at him". He was a successful, decorated soldier and then...........! What happens to people like him and Sandys? Maybe there's no answer or maybe we need someone with a psychology background to take us forward. Are there any psychologists in the Forum ?

Harry

[Vista52]

The first objective of the 2nd Middlesex were the German front line trenches in front of Ovillers. His battalion had the furthest to advance, a distance of about 700 metres. But on that fateful morning those young men will have felt it was a lot further than that I'm sure. They had to advance over the open ground of Mash Valley and they quickly became easy targets for the machine guns, artillery and rifle fire that smashed into them from three sides. Incredibly, some Middlesex men did reach the German trenches, but there is no doubt that it was a disaster. Sandy's worst fears had come to pass and The Regiment lost 22 officers and 601 ORs in the attack.

Hello Harry

I really enjoyed your post. My interest in the 2nd Bn Middlesex Regiment is that my G'uncle was there on 1st July 1916. He was Pte E G Vaux MM and he DOW and was buried at Heilly Station 12th July. His MM is reported in the LG 19th Feb 1917 along with about 4-5 Sjt's and 1 L'Cpl from the 2nd Middlesex, all of them KIA on 1-7-1916. I've always thought they were awarded for deeds on 1-7-1916.

I went to Mash Valley over Christmas 2004 and stood looking up at Ovilliers. I have trouble trying to figure out what direction they attacked. If they went straight up the valley to Ovilliers, then the German trenches in La Boisselle would of been on their right the whole time. Any ideas?

Paul

[susanhemmings]

Thanks Harry for bringing this to my attention.

No person who gave their life during the conflict or because of it should ever be forgotten and by posting here we will remember. It is also nice that you have written an account of him from (not only published works) but your own view. It is a very sad story indeed.

The torment that each and every one of those brave individuals went through is unimaginable.

So, I thank you ..

and feel the greatest compassion for this poor tormented soul.

Susan.

[nittenman]

The torment that each and every one of those brave individuals went through is unimaginable.

So, I thank you ..

and feel the greatest compassion for this poor tormented soul.

Susan.

Well said Susan.

The things Sandys saw and heard completely destroyed him to the point where he saw death as the only escape from the torture. He was clearly a decent, noble man.

Keith

[susanhemmings]

Oh god, how awful.

Poor soul.

susan.

may he be at peace now.

[delta]

Would this map help?

Stephem

[Vista52]

Hi Stephen,

Yes, thank you for the map. I see now what Harry meant when he said they were fired on from 3 sides. Looking at the map, it's amazing to think that they were able to take the German front line.

Paul

[delta]

I understood that a large number of casualties resulted from machine gun fire, the guns being located to the north (on higher ground) and firing down across "No Man Land", creating a curtain of fire

[Beau Geste]

Thanks to all of you for your contributions. I'm glad that this particular strand has been of use to some . The map was a great help, thanks Stephen.

Sometimes it's difficult to describe an area just in words and it might not even have helped if I had written about the two spurs that dominate Mash Valley - The Ovillers and La Boiselle Spurs. They are like two fingers of higher land, separated by Mash Valley and pointing in the direction of Albert behind the British positions. It was from these that the Germans could look down on the 2nd Middlesex who had to advance up the valley between them. It's no wonder the losses were so high.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

I understood that a large number of casualties resulted from machine gun fire, the guns being located to the north (on higher ground) and firing down across "No Man Land", creating a curtain of fire

Absolutely right, but they were also in the south in and around La Boiselle and in the west in the German front line position in front of Ovillers. In other words from three sides.

harry