Memorials missing or incorrect on UKNIWM

[spoons]

I have found a few memorials that are not listed on UKNIWM (http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/) and a few others that are a little 'confused'.

Perhaps someone at UKNIWM can use this in the future to fill in the blanks in their records?

Capt James Edward Tait VC, Troqueer Church, Dumfries and Galloway - missing

MAJOR-GENERAL SIR VICTOR MORVEN FORTUNE K.B.E. C.B. D.S.O at Auchencairn in Dumfries and Galloway - this is actually a separate memorial but is just shown as a note on the main memorial in Auchencairn church in UKNIWM

Durisdeer civic memorial, Dumfries and Galloway (spelt Durrisdeer on memorial) - missing

Durisdeer village civic memorial (not the same as above) - missing

Laurieknowe Church, Dumfries - Roll of Honour - missing - this memorial is in Troqueer church and shows all those who served, noting those who made the final sacrifice - note that there is also another memorial showing only those who died, ref 44294 but this is a separate memorial

Bankend in Dumfries and Galloway, not listed GR NY 019 694

entry for 'Corsock and Kirkpatrick Durham' (Ref 5880) is incorrect. The memorial in question is for Corsock only - there is a separate one for Kirkpatrick Durham which needs to be added, GR 787703

There is a war memorial at Herd's Lodge just south of Whithorn (NX 425 383) at least it is marked on my OS map. I have not been able to identify this on UKNIWM

Entry for Keir (Dumfries and Galloway) is missing, this is NOT the same as the church memorial already listed. GR NX 858 932

memorial at Mennock, Dumfries and Galloway needs to be added. Not listed on UKNIWM. Photos already posted on http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic....orum=warmemscot

Morton memorial is not listed on UKNIWM. Location is in Thornhill, Dumfries and Galloway at NX 879 955.

The memorial at Ringford (Ref 5869), Dumfries and Galloway is actually dedicated to the men of Tongland

Irongray church, Dumfries and Galloway is missing, GR NX 915 796

Lochrutton church is missing, GR NX 913 736

Memorial ref 44357 (at Buittle) is shown incorrectly as Younger, it is actually a memorial to Capt W Maxwell.

All the memorials in Greyfriars church Dumfries at GR NX 971 763 are missing and these are:

3rd Battalion KOSB - BOER War

2nd Battalion KOSB - Egypt

Capt Hannay, 3rd Bn KOSB

Sgt Kirkpatrick, 4th Bn KOSB

Great War parish memorial - 43 names

Photographs and further details of many of the above are already available at http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic....orum=warmemscot

[kinnethmont]

Spoons

You should advise them of the errors and omissions which you have discovered.

You can do this by e-mail at memorials@iwm.org.uk or use the Memorials Tool link on the page of the memorials which exist.

[Terry Denham]

Jas is correct.

UKNIWM does not do the research. They rely on volunteers reporting memorial details.

Send them details of those you find missing or with additional info. They will be updated in due course.

[spoons]

Jas is correct.

UKNIWM does not do the research. They rely on volunteers reporting memorial details.

Send them details of those you find missing or with additional info. They will be updated in due course.

You are correct of course and I should do this (and will as time allows) but my experience so far has told me that errors and omissions reported never find their way onto the site. I first notified some additions and corrections during January and February 2006 via the link on Channel 4's lost generation website which states that it will probably take a week to add them. Well after 3 months nothing had been added or changed and a quick review of the site at http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites...earch/m-new.jsp compared with http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server?show=nav.0...amp;clearForm=1 told me that all entries from November 2005 onwards are still waiting to be actioned.

I wrote to one of the Family History magazines (around May 2006 I think) and one of their reporters looked into it and mailed me to say they had a backlog and it would all be done by the end of June. Well I checked again in August and have just checked again. I see no evidence that any of the omissions reported have been added to the UKNIWM (over 500 waiting). So you will forgive me if I concentrate my efforts at the moment where they seem to have some effect and return to reporting these to UKNIWM when either some life seems to get back into their project or I run out of (perceived) more effective work.

I don't mean this to be critical of all the excellent work and effort that has been done so far and I do think it is a valuable resource and refer to UKNIWM daily but they do seem to be under-resourced.

[staffsreg]

I can understand your frustration Spoons, but please don't get downhearted.

Just keep up the good work....just doing what you are doing is in some small part at least keeping these chaps memories alive!

Best regards,

Ivan.

[michaelpcoyle]

I have found a few memorials that are not listed on UKNIWM (http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/) and a few others that are a little 'confused'.

Perhaps someone at UKNIWM can use this in the future to fill in the blanks in their records?

Capt James Edward Tait VC, Troqueer Church, Dumfries and Galloway - missing

MAJOR-GENERAL SIR VICTOR MORVEN FORTUNE K.B.E. C.B. D.S.O at Auchencairn in Dumfries and Galloway - this is actually a separate memorial but is just shown as a note on the main memorial in Auchencairn church in UKNIWM

Durisdeer civic memorial, Dumfries and Galloway (spelt Durrisdeer on memorial) - missing

Durisdeer village civic memorial (not the same as above) - missing

Laurieknowe Church, Dumfries - Roll of Honour - missing - this memorial is in Troqueer church and shows all those who served, noting those who made the final sacrifice - note that there is also another memorial showing only those who died, ref 44294 but this is a separate memorial

Bankend in Dumfries and Galloway, not listed GR NY 019 694

entry for 'Corsock and Kirkpatrick Durham' (Ref 5880) is incorrect. The memorial in question is for Corsock only - there is a separate one for Kirkpatrick Durham which needs to be added, GR 787703

There is a war memorial at Herd's Lodge just south of Whithorn (NX 425 383) at least it is marked on my OS map. I have not been able to identify this on UKNIWM

Entry for Keir (Dumfries and Galloway) is missing, this is NOT the same as the church memorial already listed. GR NX 858 932

memorial at Mennock, Dumfries and Galloway needs to be added. Not listed on UKNIWM. Photos already posted on http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic....orum=warmemscot

Morton memorial is not listed on UKNIWM. Location is in Thornhill, Dumfries and Galloway at NX 879 955.

The memorial at Ringford (Ref 5869), Dumfries and Galloway is actually dedicated to the men of Tongland

Irongray church, Dumfries and Galloway is missing, GR NX 915 796

Lochrutton church is missing, GR NX 913 736

Memorial ref 44357 (at Buittle) is shown incorrectly as Younger, it is actually a memorial to Capt W Maxwell.

All the memorials in Greyfriars church Dumfries at GR NX 971 763 are missing and these are:

3rd Battalion KOSB - BOER War

2nd Battalion KOSB - Egypt

Capt Hannay, 3rd Bn KOSB

Sgt Kirkpatrick, 4th Bn KOSB

Great War parish memorial - 43 names

Photographs and further details of many of the above are already available at http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic....orum=warmemscot

Errors notes and will be updated soon. Mike Coyle

[Ice Tiger]

I don't mean this to be critical of all the excellent work and effort that has been done so far and I do think it is a valuable resource and refer to UKNIWM daily but they do seem to be under-resourced.

Whilst i fully support their intention, there is no surprise that they are under resourced.

I enquired about volunteering my time to assist them with data input & was informed that I had to commit to a minimum of 1 day per week & not 3 or 4 consecutive days per month.

Andy

[Guest fcasey]

Reply from UKNIWM:

We have just been notified of this post and would very much like to respond but please forgive its length as a number of issues have been raised by yourselves.

Channel 4 website: The reason the updates submitted to Channel 4 did not take place was due to database and data entry problems which have taken a long time to resolve due to the scale of the project - over 850,000 names needed to be checked before the new data could be uploaded again. We requested the return of the data to ourselves in May of this year so that we could have more control over it and get it progressing again. We currently have the names data that was originally taken from our archive in a temporary database and we have a team of volunteers continuing the data checking. We now need to fund and build a fully functional relational database to house the names and arrange transfer of the memorial and name information submitted by the public via the Channel 4 site as that has not yet been transferred to us. If you would like to help with the names project then see the volunteering section below.

Records backlog: We are approaching 60,000 records on the website: 1,762 of which were input in the last year as new records, whilst 6,973 records were updated with information. This has reduced the records awaiting inputting to an all-time low of approximately 4,500 new records but additions to catalogued records are coming in all the time and we have still to find the remaining 40,000 of the estimated 100,000 war memorials in the UK. All of the information that we are sent is sorted and filed so that it is accessible prior to it being catalogued and published online. We prioritise the cataloguing of vulnerable memorials or memorials that are relevant to time restricted projects (e.g. restoration projects/planning procedures). This is followed by the uploading of Counties in sequence. Updates to existing records are carried out continuously.

The under-resourcing issue: There are only two members of staff at UKNIWM, the Project Coordinator and myself, the Project Officer. Whilst it is very important, data inputting is not the only work we do. As the national body for war memorial information we receive a high number of enquiries to respond to as well as records processing to carry out and project development to take forward which all takes time. But we do have a wonderful team of volunteers. All records are submitted by our team of 110 volunteer fieldworkers and the public or public bodies and 99% of records are input by a dedicated team of 7 office volunteers and 3 remote inputters. We also have 20 remote inputters working on the above mentioned Names database which will allow people to search the First World War names on war memorials. A recent debate in the House of Commons commented on the fact that we are under-resourced and our intention is to seek funding to rectify this (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm091021/debtext/91021-0023.htm)

Sending us information: Please do send us information directly, without it we would not be able to ensure that the rich and personal heritage of war memorials was available. Recently, the theft of 10 First World War and Second World War bronze plaques in Broomfield Park in Palmers Green, North London caused bewilderment, anger and upset. But thanks to UKNIWM volunteers, each plaque had been photographed and the photographs showing the names of all those commemorated had been sent as a record to us. This meant that Broomfield had a record from which they have now made a complete set of replacement plaques. There was no other record of the names on these plaques, so without the dedication of volunteers and interested individuals like yourselves these names would have been lost.

Volunteering: We have many people wanting to record memorials but our greatest challenge in making the records available is in processing the information once it arrives in the office. This is where you could help by volunteering your time to input information remotely. It is not the case that a volunteer needs to commit to one day a week - this refers only to our London-based office volunteers as we only have so much space in the office and need to have a regular day (or days) a week for each one so we can maximise the number of volunteers we can have. But with the wonder that is the internet we can be very flexible for remote working (ie: working on our internet accessible database from home). Volunteers can commit to whatever time they have available, although there is the question of whether they will have time to input enough records to make training and sending out the data practicable and beneficial (i.e: if we send out a batch of records we would need to know that it will be input within a 3-6 month timescale). We are also looking for remote in-putters for our First World War Names database. With this, step-by-step training is given remotely so you can follow it from home. If you would like to help us and would like further details, please take a look at our website at: http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.22772 We hope that this has clarified the issues raised in this post, but if you want any more information or have any more queries do contact us.

[daggers]

It is good to see this reply and I hope that efforts to increase their funding are successful. Meanwhile, who is stepping up to volunteer their help, on-site or remote?

D

[spoons]

It is great to see such a detailed and positive reply. Since I made the original post, I have (sporadically) sent details and photos of quite a few memorials to UKNIWM and corrections and updates on others. I will continue to do so as I find time. I have also joined the War Memorials Trust to make a more positive contribution. I have also written to my MP to ask that he does what he can to improve funding for UKNIWM and I received a positive reply.

I don't know if Dumfries and Galloway is typical, but UKNIWM currently lists 298 memorials whereas, with assistance from others, I have recorded and photographed 433 with a further 23 identified. No doubt I will find others. Many of these 'unknown' memorials have been found in churches, schools, village halls and other public buildings with a few actually in private hands. Local newspaper articles occasionally turn up details of a 'lost' memorial which should also be recorded.

The memorials of Dumfries and Galloway can be found on the Scottish War Memorials Project here

\Spoons