clive_hughes Posted 3 January , 2007 Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Today's newspaper says that the North Wales Heroes' Memorial Arch is to receive a Welsh Assembly grant for refurbishment. The honey-coloured stone Archway is in Deiniol Road, Bangor, Gwynedd, at the foot of the hill leading up to the University College. It was opened in 1923 and the upper room has wooden panels which list the names of the fallen of the First World War. They are arranged by county (Anglesey, Caernarfonshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire, Merionethshire, and Montgomeryshire), and then in alphabetical order of parish/town within each county. Some 10,000 names are believed to be listed - I have transcribed the Anglesey ones, if anyone's interested, but only surname and initials are given. It has suffered some decay of late, and was cordoned off after it was found that some of the support brickwork was corroding. It seems to be maintained by the University, who say that £155,000 is needed for the proposed restoration scheme. Todays grant will supply £47,000 towards that sum, for major and urgent repairs. I was one of the few people who used to visit this memorial in the 1970s, it seemed in those days to be largely ignored by the public. The small lower room was at that time only used by the University chaplains, as a drop-in for students wanting a chat with them. Remembrance services took place at the town's own memorial across the road, and it was years before I realised that the actual names of all WW1 casualties from North Wales were listed within the structure. The archway room was locked and the key had to be obtained from the college porters. Later it seems that others gained access only to misuse the room, and it became even more difficult to view the interior of the memorial. It has looked like a building site for some time, with metal fencing to prevent access, so I welcome any move that restores respect to this important structure and which (hopefully) can make public access to the memorial panels easier. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 3 January , 2007 Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Clive Although I'd known about thi s memorial from way back I only became interested in it a couple of years ago when I got this WW1 'bug' (not complaining!) by which time access was virtually impossible. I've had a stab at trying to find a written record of the list inside etc at the University Archives ( and the County ones) with no luck. Mind you I've not looked too hard yet. I wonder who compiled the lists and what parameters were set.Do you know of any archived material for the site? Also. in your experience re Anglesey, were there many discrepancies between the Arch and the actual parishes/towns? Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Clive Although I'd known about thi s memorial from way back I only became interested in it a couple of years ago when I got this WW1 'bug' (not complaining!) by which time access was virtually impossible. I've had a stab at trying to find a written record of the list inside etc at the University Archives ( and the County ones) with no luck. Mind you I've not looked too hard yet. I wonder who compiled the lists and what parameters were set.Do you know of any archived material for the site? Also. in your experience re Anglesey, were there many discrepancies between the Arch and the actual parishes/towns? Hywyn Hello Hywyn, I've never seen a paper list of those recorded within the archway - the most I have clapped eyes on is the programme for the opening of the Memorial, which was in the University Library or Archives on the hill above. However, like you I wasn't making a point of pressing the question in those days. I don't think they had the original questionnaires or whatever which each district must have sent in, because I was doing WW1 research there for several years and was great friends with the then Archivist, and he'd have mentioned it. However, various old College records were found locked away somewhere in the building not long before I left Bangor and it's just conceivable that relevant material may have turned up then or since. I suspect the town/parish councils were asked to furnish lists of the war dead (or render a nil return). Since there are men who appear on up to 3 different local memorials on Anglesey, the possibility of duplication must have been very real. I have to say however that (for Anglesey) very few examples are known to me where the same person appears under different localities on the Archway panels, so however they did it, they got it about right! It would be interesting to discover what parameters they used, and whether the returned sheets had more than just the "JONES, J." level of information which is displayed on the panels. It also has to be said, however, that in most cases I'm aware of on Anglesey the lists on the Archway do NOT correspond with the lists on the village Memorials. There are numerous names which are not on the village memorials but on the Archway panels; and which are on the memorials but not on the panels. I can't say why this should be, unless the councils (or whoever) had their own ideas re. criteria of casualties' eligibility at the time their own memorials were set up (before and after the Archway was built). If you haven't been in there, the upper room had a large wooden table in the centre (possibly for meetings?), and a wrought iron lamp hanging above. There were some regimental and corps badges on wooden shields around the upper edge of the panels; but pretty bare & simple otherwise. Also it held North Wales' premier specimen collection of dead flies...it would be good to have the Memorial's profile highlighted, so that due public recognition can be given to those 10,000 who died. Restoring it and making access available would be even better. Mewn angof ni chant fod Thanks, LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Hywyn, just looked at the UK National Inventory of War Memorials on the Imperial War Museum site - found an entry number 24477 for the existence of a "North Wales Heroes' Book of Remembrance" for WW1 at the Shire Hall, Llangefni, Anglesey but apparently in care of the Anglesey County Record Office (on the same site). Probably a transcript of the Archway details, which I've never come across before so don't know whether all 10,000 names are in there, or just Anglesey's. They used to have a WW2 Wales-wide Remembrance book, in all likelihood based on the Cardiff Temple of Peace volume, but back in the 1970s denied any WW1 volume! If you get over there, let us know more please! LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 LST Do you think it could possibly be a copy of Parch W J Owens' book Cofeb y Dewrion ( Heroes Memorial) which is, as you know, about the fallen of Bangor City only. Worth a check though. Thanks for explaining what is inside the Archway and the comparison with local data. Last time I was at the University Archives I broached the subject of written records. I was told of the existence of a number of documents ( College ones) that had not yet been catalogued. Unfortunately I chose kicking out time to bring it up. Next time I'll try and get some sort of definitive answer. I would assume that the College would be responsible for them. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 4 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2007 LST Do you think it could possibly be a copy of Parch W J Owens' book Cofeb y Dewrion ( Heroes Memorial) which is, as you know, about the fallen of Bangor City only. Worth a check though. Thanks for explaining what is inside the Archway and the comparison with local data. Last time I was at the University Archives I broached the subject of written records. I was told of the existence of a number of documents ( College ones) that had not yet been catalogued. Unfortunately I chose kicking out time to bring it up. Next time I'll try and get some sort of definitive answer. I would assume that the College would be responsible for them. Hywyn Hywyn, I don't think the item in Llangefni would be the same as Owen's book, which is a standard published volume (I own a copy, together with a similar volume for the Amlwch area). That wouldn't merit inclusion on the UK Inventory list. But it might just be the County's own presentation copy of the Archway names, hence its being kept at the Shire Hall. If so, logically each of the 6 old counties should have a similar volume... Forgot to add that the Memorial Arch has nice bronze doors to the upper room. Hwyl, LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Point taken. I recently went through the card index system at the Caernarfon Archives and I cannot see anything in my notes re the subject matter. However, given that I could have easily overlooked it I shall ask next time I visit. I'll try and speak to llangefni within the next week or so and let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 13 October , 2007 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2007 UPDATE: For those who are interested, all the panels of the North Wales Heroes' Memorial Arch have been photographed and are searchable by parish/village/town name on the Bangor Civic Society website: http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk/pages/arch/index.htm There is a good "enlarge" facillity which clarifies the close-packed names. The Appeal for the restoration of the Arch is ongoing, still need a lot of money but there is a link for donations if anyone feels so moved. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 13 October , 2007 Share Posted 13 October , 2007 Thanks for the link. I was in Bangor recently but didn't get a chance to take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsA Posted 17 October , 2008 Share Posted 17 October , 2008 LST, thanks for posting the links with the panel! I tried looking up the entrys for Eyton, looking for J Prodger. Unfortunately only the first three names showed, and I have not the neccessary Welsh Geography skills to guess which city/village would be next in line after Eyton... Any help gratefully received! Kind regards Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 17 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2008 Lars, Eyton was a township in former Denbighshire (though ecclesiastically it comes under Bangor-on-Dee parish in Flintshire). It has a small early-20th century church, though I don't recall seeing any war memorials of note there. You will therefore find that the next (Denbighshire) parishes in line are Glyn Traean and Gresford. It will also confirm to you that Eyton only listed the three casualties whose names you can see. I don't live too far from here - who or what are you interested in? Maybe they are on the Bangor-on-Dee church memorial, since Eyton was (& is) a daughter church. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsA Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 LST, The man I am looking for is: 10063 pte/lcpl Joseph Prodger, 1st RWF Born In Bangor-Isycoed, circa 1890, the son of Kate and William Prodger. William Prodger, a collier driver at 93 Crabtree Green, Eyton, Wrexham with sons Joseph and Willie, daughter Ellen (1901 Census). Enlisted circa 1908/1909. Reported Wounded 20th October. Reported Wounded and Missing 21st. October 1914. Later noted as death accepted 21/10/1914. Buried at Harelbeke New British Cemetery (a concentration cemetery) near Courtrai. I did not find him listed under either Bangor-Isycoed or Wrexham, so thought Eyton might be an alternative. Thanks for offering to help! /Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 21 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Lars, I will try to go there or ask about it - please bear with me as I am about to go on holiday till 4th November. I used to own medals to a couple of RWF casualties in the 1st Ypres actions - one was killed , the other taken POW. There is a survivors account in the Dept. of Documents at the IWM Lambeth: he was taken POW in the final action when the unit was overwhelmed near Zandvoorde. Can't recall his name (though the catalogue there would easily pick him out by unit or as a POW), but his writing struck me as being in a similar vein to Frank Richards of 2nd RWF fame. Regards, LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie w Posted 11 November , 2008 Share Posted 11 November , 2008 LST 164,thanks for the link,just found my gt uncle.Ambrose Lloyd from esclusham. julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2friars Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 The good news is that the University has decided to bridge the gap between donations and the match funding target needed to secure CADW support for maintenance to the memorial. (I.e. we'll give you 50,000 if you raise 100,000). It's not clear exactly when work will begin, but together with the work already completed on the roof, the structure should be safe for many years to come. Matt Bangor Civic Society http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk Today's newspaper says that the North Wales Heroes' Memorial Arch is to receive a Welsh Assembly grant for refurbishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Can't believe that I've missed this thread until today! Is there a way of ensuring that adequate funds are achieved? Should there be a GWForum 'pressure group' of members with an interest? Lets chew the cudd! Geraint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2friars Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 No sorry, badly worded maybe. The appeal is over. CADW, Bangor University and the donors thus far will contribute to the restoration. Although feel free to donate, i'm sure the University would be happy to take further donations towards the memorial to reduce thier exposure. And given they've got the Old Main Arts building to restore too it does show allot of respect on there part to invest in the memorial at a time when there's not allot of money lying around. Thanks Geraint, other battles to fight now... Can't believe that I've missed this thread until today! Is there a way of ensuring that adequate funds are achieved? Should there be a GWForum 'pressure group' of members with an interest? Lets chew the cudd! Geraint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 17 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2008 This is very good news indeed. I will look forward to seeing the refurbished structure. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 19 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2008 The man I am looking for is: 10063 pte/lcpl Joseph Prodger, 1st RWF I did not find him listed under either Bangor-Isycoed or Wrexham, so thought Eyton might be an alternative. Thanks for offering to help! /Lars Had a word with the Rector of Bangor & Eyton, and Prodger is not mentioned on the Memorials at either place. Maybe the family had moved since the Census and locals were unaware of his fate? LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsA Posted 20 November , 2008 Share Posted 20 November , 2008 Thanks for taking the trouble to look, it is muh appreciated! /Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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