J Banning Posted 28 December , 2006 Share Posted 28 December , 2006 I am looking into the tank attacks made by G Battalion Tank Corps on 31 July 1917 at the start of the Battle of Pilckem (they supported 39th Div as they attacked towards St Julien). In David Fletchers excellently readable 'Tanks and Trenches' he mentions 2/Lt Allden who is in Tank G47. The tank he is attacking alongside gets knocked out just to the right of Alberta. I think this is tank G48. In Nigel Steel and Peter Hart's book 'Passchendaele, The Sacrificial Ground' they quote Sgt Allnatt who is in tank G10 (Gravedigger). He mentions seeing tank G11 (Glamorgan) getting knocked out and the whole crew being killed. I always thought that there was some confusion between these testimonies as I was sure that the loss of G48 and G11 were one and the same event. After some research I find that they are not, although it does appear that both tanks (G48 and G11) were knocked out in the same area. A very long shot I know but does anyone know anything more about this? I am unable to get to the National Archives for some time otherwise I would just pull the after action report for G Battalion and see what it says. Any tank buffs out there who know the map references of where these two tanks were knocked out? Any help very gratefully received. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 28 December , 2006 Share Posted 28 December , 2006 G48 knocked out near ALBERTA having skirted KITCHENER WOOD. Martin Marix Evans book 'Passchendaele and the Battles of Ypres 1914-1918' gives details of 19 Company tanks G45, G46, G47 and G48. Captain Browne MC commander of the company received the following orders. " After crossing the front line, No10 section will split up. The left hand pair, G45 and G46 (Browne) pass to the north of KULTUR FARM and take the northern end of KITCHENERS WOOD, giving special attention to BOCHE CASTLE (C10d) and the strong-point : then proceed round the wood and mop up in conjunction with the infantry until the barrage at line S lifts at zero plus 4.1, when they will advance with the infantry, giving special attention to REGINA CROSS. The right hand pair, G47 and G48, passing to the south of KULTUR FARM, will take the southern end of KITCHENERS WOOD, and on the lifting of the barrage on line S at zero plus 4.1, will devote their attention to the strong-point at ALBERTA and push forward at the discretion of the commander towards HUGEL HOLLOW. As soon as the infantry are consolidated on the STEENBECK LINE, tanks will rally at C11d 20 90 (North of ALBERTA) " G46 flooded near BOCHE CASTLE , G45 and G48 were lost and only G47 (Lt Alden) reached the STEENBECK where he fired on an armoured train on the other side of the STEENBECK and put it to flight. I have the details of the 21 Company attack with the 51st Highland Division including a map , a portion of which I attach, the dotted lines are the tracks of G tanks. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 28 December , 2006 Share Posted 28 December , 2006 This forum knocks me out! thanx for the info Stephen (G48 shown below) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Banning Posted 29 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Malcolm, Thanks so much for your detailed response. So, you mentioned that G48 was knocked out near ALBERTA. Don't suppose you know what happened to G11?! I think that G11 was also knocked out near ALBERTA and would like to be able to pinpoint where both tanks were finally knocked out. I know this is highly specific so don't worry if you don't know! I can always go to the National Archives in the New Year and take a look through the war diary as I would like to then spend a couple of days in the salient and follow the story of the tanks at 3rd Ypres. To save me a trip to Kew, does anyone else know? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Ralph, I don't have info to hand on G11 etc. I do know G50 took out MACDONALD FARM for the 7th Gordons in 51st HD area as it is in their history so I would imagine G10 etc would have been with 116 Brigade, 11th, 12th, 13th Royal Sussex and 14th Hampshire Regiment on the right of 39th Division attack toward ST JULIEN. McCARTHY'S Day by Day Account gives - In 51st Division attack. Eight tanks supported the attack. Their fates were as follows: G49 stuck at the BLUE LINE, G41 stuck 200 yards past the BLUE LINE, G51 reached KITCHENERS WOOD, G44, G45, G52 reached the GREEN LINE having dealt with several MG nests, G50 reached VARNA FARM after several engagements and G42reached the BLACK LINE and worked along it. Now this gives a problem, as Evan's book gives G45 in 39th Division area but the above is also in the 51st HD History. You should check 19th and 20th Battalion Tank Corp info when you go to the NA. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVB Posted 30 December , 2006 Share Posted 30 December , 2006 Hi, if you can wait some days, I will go throught my archive because a year ago I did also study this tanks and this regions in order to verify a story of a relict that might be there but that turned out to be a piece of artillery. I do remember finding the grave of the commander of G11 Glamorgan in St.-Julien Dressing Station. But all the other details I will have to dig up again, working on other battalions and places now ;-) Vanbeselaere Johan Poelcapelle 1917 Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 30 December , 2006 Share Posted 30 December , 2006 Great Johan, I for one wait with anticipation. Here is a better scan of the map giving some indication of the movement of G45, 46, 47 & 48. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkalotloudly Posted 31 December , 2006 Share Posted 31 December , 2006 there is a book specific to "G" Battalion printed in 1919 i think you will find there is a copy available on the net regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Banning Posted 1 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2007 Hi John, Have you any idea what this book is called? And when you say it is available on the net, do you mean on a second hand book website such as abebooks.com or do you mean as a downloadable book? Johan, Any help you can give is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to your post and quite understand that over the new year is never the best time to be answering detailed Great War questions! Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkalotloudly Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 narrative history of G and the 7th tank battalion printed 1919 £98.00 from Anchor books of spalding full details on ABE books best regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVB Posted 2 January , 2007 Share Posted 2 January , 2007 This forum knocks me out! thanx for the info Stephen (G48 shown below) I think this is not G48, but G46, Gina the tank of Browne. Johan Vanbeselaere Poelcapelle 1917 Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVB Posted 2 January , 2007 Share Posted 2 January , 2007 --> QUOTE(Ralph B @ Dec 29 2006, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks so much for your detailed response. So, you mentioned that G48 was knocked out near ALBERTA. Don't suppose you know what happened to G11?! I think that G11 was also knocked out near ALBERTA and would like to be able to pinpoint where both tanks were finally knocked out. To save me a trip to Kew, does anyone else know? Ralph and Malcolm and others , seems most of my information on G-Bttn of 31/7 is lend out to someone. Nevertheless in other papers I do find about G48 en G11 : G48 Gullah 2nd Lt. Brassington N° 10 ection of Capt. Kessel : ditched between the German front line and the blue line: rallied at Kultur Farm being towed out G11 Glamorgan 2nd Lt. Lynch N° 4 section of Capt. Chadwick : several times in action, direct hit and burnt out over the green line E. of Steenbeek On St.-Julien Dressing Station Cemetery you can find the grave of 2nd Lt. Lynch ! If you ever come in my region, let me know, so I can show you around. I will recollect my G-Bttn info of 31/7 and perhaps will be able to make a more detailed comparison of the two. I'm quite sure G48 was indeed with G47 around Kitchener Wood. G11 was presumably with G4 more south and did cross the steenbeek, going in the direction of springfield if I remember well. But this last sentence should be yet confirmed ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Banning Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Hi Johan, Thanks for your help thus far - it has been amazing and greatly appreciated. If you get any further information then please do let me know. Cheers Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 3 January , 2007 Share Posted 3 January , 2007 I think this is not G48, but G46, Gina the tank of Browne. Johan Vanbeselaere Johan - thank you - I shall adjust my records and re-title the picture Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Just been checking the War Diary of 17th Sherwood Forresters who were in support in 39th Division attack in which is mentioned the help of two tanks in taking Alberta . and further on: ' 5.35am Dotted Black Line. Consolidation was then proceeded with. I would here like to mention the Tank Commander of G47 who did excellent work' Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ralph etc, This is a long shot but could I possibly ask any G / 7 Bn afficianados if they have ever come across a Pte 40114 James Henderson Reid who served with G / 7 Bn from its beginnings in UK until the end of the war. I have asked about this Bn before and done some basic research. At the back of the Bn WD (which the NA has on line) there is a sort of precis of what was published as: Narrative history of “G” and 7th Tank Battalion. (Compiled by a Committee of Officers), Gale & Polden, Aldershot.1919, It's not very long and £98 seems ridiculous when it's available in at least the IWM library and the BL where I've read through it. thanks Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_McGarry Posted 9 March , 2007 Share Posted 9 March , 2007 As an aside, I have a recording that my friend made of her Grandfather who died in 1994 aged 102, He was in the RFA Attached to the Royal Naval Division and in 1917 found himself sheltering in a knocked out tank just off the wooden road at Kitcheners wood "There were two British tanks beside the road and the gun crews used one of them to shelter in as their guns were close by. Fred and his team sat listening to the shells dropping all around. One of the crew suggested someone ought to take a look outside and as Fred was nearest the door he decided to take a peek. Just as he emerged from the tank and out of the sand bagged exit he saw to his horror that the next shell was coming straight for him, he ducked back into the tank as quickly as he could. Unfortunately not quick enough and Fred was hit behind the knee buy a piece of shrapnel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 12 February , 2009 Share Posted 12 February , 2009 Talking of Sgt Allnatt and G10 look here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ME:B:SS:GB:1123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 12 February , 2009 Share Posted 12 February , 2009 I would be very wary of that E-bay item, there is a lot frauds out there............... Why would Sgt Allnatt have his name on a tea caddy ? Bob Grundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 13 February , 2009 Share Posted 13 February , 2009 Hi Ralph. The Officer 2nd Lieut Allden, John. "G" Battn. Was awarded the M.C for the action in your thread. July 31st 1917.Operations in the Ypres Salient. For cinspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty.He reached his objective at Alberta in front of the infantry, and by knocking out several machine gun nests, assisted the infantry very materially in their advances on that objective. At the end of the day,although his unditching gear had been carried away by a shell,he got his tank back to the rallying point. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan D'Hooghe Posted 19 March , 2014 Share Posted 19 March , 2014 Bringing this thread tothe top again - has anyone ever come across any information about a Private Tom Freeston (69827) who I believe served in G Bttn. from 1917? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 27 March , 2014 Share Posted 27 March , 2014 Hi, I was interested to read the old thread but I think the best chance of a response would be to post a new inquiry under the 'Soldiers' section of the Forum. Otherwise I'm not sure how many people will read all the way through. Just a thought, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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