Anybody subscribes to "Le Parisien"?

[egbert]

With all the ongoing efforts to save the Bois de Loges battleground to be converted to a modern landfill station, I have given an interview to "Le Parisien" newspaper which will be published in the 24 Dec 2006 edition. Is there anybody who subscribes to the papers and could send me a scan of my interview please?

[Martin Bennitt]

Hi Egbert

You should be able to get it on the paper's website.

http://www.leparisien.com/home/index.htm

I will look out for the Dec 24 edition anyway but there's one snag: I don't have a scanner, but some other pal in France might be able to help. It may of course be in the provincial version of the paper, which is called Aujourd'hui.

cheers Martin B

[egbert]

Thanx for the link and help -so lets see what they publish

[Plan]

Thanx for the link and help -so lets see what they publish

Be prepared for a few "cuts": it is the unfortunate reality that media often have to publish only a condensed version of comments, interviews.

Pascal

[Martin Bennitt]

Be prepared for a few "cuts": it is the unfortunate reality that media often have to publish only a condensed version of comments, interviews.

Pascal

Especially as Le Parisien is a tabloid. But owt's better than nowt, as they say.

Looking at the website again, it seems you can opt for full trial access to a selected day's edition for precisely 0.00 euros.

cheers Martin B

[egbert]

Especially as Le Parisien is a tabloid. But owt's better than nowt, as they say.

Looking at the website again, it seems you can opt for full trial access to a selected day's edition for precisely 0.00 euros.

cheers Martin B

But also my handicap is "j'ai fait mon baccalaureat en 1973" or so

[ian turner]

Egbert,

J'ai vu votre correspondence avec Le Parisien, par e-mail. Merci, et bon chance!

Ian

PS, pity you did not pass out 2 years later - you might have been a ''soixante-quinze!''

[Martin Bennitt]

But also my handicap is "j'ai fait mon baccalaureat en 1973" or so

I think you might recognise your own name in the story, and the Bois des Loges. For the free trial they just want all your personal and intimate details so they can pester you for a three-year subscription at full wack afterwards.

As a

[Martin Bennitt]

.... bonus, (sorry, pressed the wrong button there) I could buy a copy and fax you the relevant bit, with a translation. How's that for service?

cheers Martin B

[egbert]

Ian you only know the essay part , wait for the interview. Martin great service but I hope the Parisien does not have a local section where it is only published down there in the Beauvraignes region????!

[TD60]

Ian you only know the essay part , wait for the interview. Martin great service but I hope the Parisien does not have a local section where it is only published down there in the Beauvraignes region????!

Egbert, there are local sections and it could be publish only in the 'Oise' édition of the Parisien.

there are regulary some articles about this topic in local newspapers.

I wonder what is your point of view on this topic and your feelings.

Regards

[Martin Bennitt]

TD60 said:

Egbert, there are local sections and it could be publish only in the 'Oise' édition of the Parisien.

there are regulary some articles about this topic in local newspapers.

I wonder what is your point of view on this topic and your feelings.

Regards

I too fear that it will only be in a local edition of Le Parisien/Aujourd'hui for the Oise, and I live in the Yvelines. But I thought it might be available on the website.

Re points of view, there is a thread on this topic:

 

Salut

Martin B

[egbert]

Thanks Martin and TD!

Lets wait and see the 24th Dec edition.

My point of view? I was asked by a French internet friend upon my opinion and my willingness to convey my point of view to a Le Parisien journalist.

As you might know I have a deep personal interest in the Bois de Loges affair where a huge landfill is planned. I have posted a lot of information in my Grandfather's trunk thread about Les Loges/Crapeaumesnil/Beauvraignes/Bois de Loges!

So here is my first email to the journalist about my opinion:

Dear Nicolas Sevaux,

Thanks for contacting me in the subject matter of Bois de Loges and surroundings.

I am happy to get the opportunity to lay out my point of view. In order to understand my case, I’d like to give you some important personal data.

I am xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Grandfather fought in the Great War (GW) and was killed in action 1918. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Some years ago I inherited all GW artifacts of Grandfather who fought all the 1914 campaigns against the French and later the British. His most critical battle was the Les Loges/Crapeaumesnil battle when his regiment lost within some few days almost all its men. The battlefield between Crapeaumesnil and the Bois de Loges and within the Bois de Loges is very well documented in the regimental history which I own and personal letters from Grandfather. The Bois de Loges is soaked with the blood of several thousand brave French and German soldiers. It was a massacre between the two Armies. Several days hundreds of wounded were crying for help in No Mans land amongst the dead until all cries fainted. Both sides documented the thousands of dead corpses. This land is a huge grave of French/German young souls, as many many bodies could not be removed. Still today remnants of soldiers are littered underneath the soil in the area in question.

A huge landfill is a true desecration of the dead who lost their lives for France and for Germany. It is a shame that part of today’s generation forget the suffering and dying of so many brave men and want to establish a landfill above the holy, blood soaked earth. De Gaulle once said, “You can measure the height of a civilization at the fact how they deal with their dead”. Here is a perfect sample of the common heritage of France and Germany to reflect on the nonsense of war. Two generations of French/German soldiers died on these very fields/Bois de Loges. We have to remember their ultimate sacrifices and should preserve their peace. Both Armies united in the Great Army up there, look down on us the children of the children how we respect them. We cannot allow beating our Grandfather’s sacrifice with our feet, regardless from which side of the conflict we see the matter.

Respect, honor and reverence must prevail above monetary economical interests.

I understand that the region will grow economically and must prosper, but for heaven’s sake not on this particular blood soaked ground that should be kept in honor. It should serve as a landscape memorial for the common French/German history.

Let our ancestors Rest In Peace in the soil of France and not underneath a desecrating landfill.

Nicolas, if you like to read Grandfathers story of the battle at Les Loges and Crapeaumesnil please read this thread which I have posted in a British GW forum and which is one of the very successful threads with more than 40.000 visitors. Just read the extract from the Les Loges battle and you will understand my case:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...st&p=477466

I was contacted by the journalist again with additional questions which I answered as follows:

- How old where you when when you discovered for the first time the story of the Bois des Loges Battle?

I knew since quite some time –maybe 6 years + - that the Bois de Loges is a cornerstone element of Grandfather’s war history. I was some 46 years old than. The story is well captured in the Regimental Chronic of Grandfathers “Infanterie Regiment 49”. Additional information with elements from the French side was sent to me by the president of the “Patrimoine de la Grande Guerre”

- - Did you ever went on the site of the battle, and, if it's not the case, do you think you could do it once in your life?

I lived in Alabama for the last 5 years and only 2 months ago permanently moved back home to Germany. I will definitely visit the Bois de Loges and surroundings in 2007 and the subsequent years, hopefully many times –if the landfill project is changed.

- - Are the economical issue important in this particular case (the landfill should normally bring some answer to the waste issue in south-east Somme)?

- 90 years after WW1 the region has its own right to prosper and develop. Nobody wants and is willing to preserve the total frontline which stretches many hundred kilometers. But there are a few frontline spots which must be considered sacrosanct because of their elevated importance for the people and a “nation culturelle”. There is no problem with a landfill for the region, but not at this very special place where the unrecovered torn remains of our ancestors still lie by the thousands in the Bois de Loges and the adjacent fields between Crapeaumesnil and Les Loges. A landfill at this particular place would fulfill the corpus delicti of disturbing the peace of the dead and should be considered a shame for a high civilized society.

- If the Bois de Loges would be located in/near Verdun, I bet we would not conduct the discussion pro/contra landfill, because it would be already a protected area due to its historic importance

- Here we have the classical struggle between economic action versus moral responsibility. There must be a place some short distance away from BdL where economical reasons do not dishonor our dead. It is the responsibility of the living politicians/economists/ people to defend the resting place of so many brave French and German soldiers who gave their ultimate sacrifice for their countries.

- - In the extreme, do you think a German symbol, or Franco-German one, should be built on the Bois des Loges Battleground?

- Very clearly : this location would be the perfect place to remember our common French-German history which we take responsibility for and reminds us of common tragedy. I would vividly support a common memorial for the dead of both nations in both languages!

- - More generally, do you think German people still interested by the preservation of old battlfield, where German soldiers fought, far away from Germany?

- In general the German population is leaning towards pacifism. After 2 wars last century this must be understood by our friends in other countries. But today you can discover the phenomena that the 2nd and 3rd generations –the grandchildren – approach this part of history with increasing interest. They approach the subject matter without prejudices and want to understand what went wrong in Europe and in special with Germany and France as we consider the French today as our best friends in Europe. So the interest will grow more and more and coming generations would not understand why today’s economic interests destroy such special places like the BdLwhere history can be touched with hands.

[Martin Bennitt]

Hi Egbert

Thanks very much for your thoughts. I concur wholeheartedly. I believe one of my relatives died of wounds received at the Hohenzollern redoubt, which has already been similarly defaced. Let's hope the newspaper gives it justice.

cheers Martin B

[TD60]

Living not so far from bois des Loges ( ~ 30 km), I heard quite often about this project.

It is interesting to heard a point of view coming from germany, it is the first time I read one,

I mean it seems not to be an argument which has already been given in the debat.

Just some words about the reason they intend to do a landfill there in this wood.

It seems they are geoligical reasons.

I do not detail this here; too technical to explain with my english words.

Shortly, the ground need a special configuration to ensure that no polluted water can go

deeply in the ground.

So those places choice are done to ensure the best protection for living people.

Those special places are often woods because those ground configurations are not favorable to

give good results in agriculture.

I am not saying I support the project idea but i think it is important to understand the reasons

of the other party. They also have good reasons. It is not 'black or white', 'monsters against angels'.

The company who would manage the storage there, has indicated they will do the best to take care of

human bodies and war objects if some are discovered. (I suppose they will go in all cases carfully:

the bulldozers do not like old shells !)

They invited local associations to follow the intial works.

Maybe it is pure nice words, maybe not.

Regards

[SiegeGunner]

I don't know the Bois des Loges site, but if there isn't already a huge hole there, the landfill plan presumably involves removing the existing material to a considerable depth — probably to the level of the impermeable clay that TD60 mentions. Excavation on that scale would almost certainly remove everything dating from the Great War, including munitions and human remains. Are the proposals, in detail, available somewhere online? If the landfill plan cannot be halted on 'heritage' grounds, perhaps there are Great War-related technical factors that could be raised against it — gas shells, mine workings passing through the clay, or something of that kind. A 'lost mine', like that at Petite Douve, would be very helpful.

Mick

[Martin Bennitt]

Hi Egbert,

I consulted Le Parisien/Aujourd'hui today, both in hard copy in my local papershop, annoying the owner because I finally walked out without buying it, and on the website, where I searched the section with news from the Oise, but unless mistaken I found no trace of your interview. It might of course been held over and I can check again in the days to come. I will also be in Paris daily from next Wednesday, so I can drop by the newspaper's head office and see if they have carried it.

cheers and Happy Christmas,

Martin B

[egbert]

Well, 't was a try worth to elevate the sad case of the Bois de Loges. Skipping the interview is of no importance, what is important is to understand that a huge landfill will be built on top of the remains of thousand of brave soldiers....

[egbert]

....

...

[Pete1052]

Egbert is to be congratulated for his accomplishment!

[SiegeGunner]

Stabsunteroffizier

Try Oberstleutnant.

Bravo, Egbert !!

[Martin Bennitt]

According to the Courrier Picard of last April 17 there is a lot of bad news and a little bit of good news. The Somme prefecture has ruled that the scheme can go ahead, and dumping will include not only household rubbish and refuse from anywhere else that is not dangerous, but certain asbestos derivatives, such as cement containing asbestos which cannot be treated any furher. Opponents say this is a completely new ball game, as special measures will be needed to stop the asbestos dust from spreading. The Bois des Loges could end up with nearly two million cubic metres of asbestos being dumped there over the next 25 years.

On the brighter side, if any human remains are found, the company managing the dump will be required to ensure the area is sealed off, the French war graves commission informed and the remains removed.

Whether that happens, of course, remains to be seen...

cheers Martin B

[Guest vixy2k]

Hello martin, I'm an undergraduate student studying French who has been living in France for the past few months. It was part of course that I take a year out to live in France to improve my French, and in order to assess my progress this year I am required to write a project in French on a subject of my choice. I have chosen to look at how the Great War continues to effect the towns and inhabitants of the Somme and am including a section on the environment (bomb disposal etc.) I came across this forum whilst doing some research and am very interested in finding out more about this proposed rubbish dump. I tried searching the archives on the Courrier Picard website but it seems their archives only contain a few samples from over the years. Do you know of any other way I could get my hands on a copy? This would really help me!

Thanks, Vicky

[Martin Bennitt]

Hello martin, I'm an undergraduate student studying French who has been living in France for the past few months. It was part of course that I take a year out to live in France to improve my French, and in order to assess my progress this year I am required to write a project in French on a subject of my choice. I have chosen to look at how the Great War continues to effect the towns and inhabitants of the Somme and am including a section on the environment (bomb disposal etc.) I came across this forum whilst doing some research and am very interested in finding out more about this proposed rubbish dump. I tried searching the archives on the Courrier Picard website but it seems their archives only contain a few samples from over the years. Do you know of any other way I could get my hands on a copy? This would really help me!

Thanks, Vicky

Hi Vicky and welcome to the forum. I also did a year in France as part of my undergraduate course, but that was some 40 years ago! I am sending you a PM, but meanwhile if you want any more assistance on your dissertation from other forum members, especially those who live in the batllefield area, I suggest you create a new topic, still in the battlefields section .

cheers Martin B

[TD60]

Hello martin, I'm an undergraduate student studying French who has been living in France for the past few months. It was part of course that I take a year out to live in France to improve my French, and in order to assess my progress this year I am required to write a project in French on a subject of my choice. I have chosen to look at how the Great War continues to effect the towns and inhabitants of the Somme and am including a section on the environment (bomb disposal etc.) I came across this forum whilst doing some research and am very interested in finding out more about this proposed rubbish dump. I tried searching the archives on the Courrier Picard website but it seems their archives only contain a few samples from over the years. Do you know of any other way I could get my hands on a copy? This would really help me!

Thanks, Vicky

You can find such archive in town libraries.

There articles in other newspapers like 'Oise Hebdo'.

TD60 from Picardy