ypresman Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Hi Whilst researching Thomas Crisp VC, I went off to photograph his wife's grave in Lowestoft. I couldn't help but notice he died not long after his wife did, a couple of months, and she was quite young. Now got me thinking, do you think he had give up on life and therefore thats why he stayed with his ship as it went down. He rebuffed any attempt to lift him off and said he wanted to go down with the ship. Do you think this could be one of the reasons why? Interesting. Cheers Marc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Hi Whilst researching Thomas Crisp VC, I went off to photograph his wife's grave in Lowestoft. I couldn't help but notice he died not long after his wife did, a couple of months, and she was quite young. Now got me thinking, do you think he had give up on life and therefore thats why he stayed with his ship as it went down. He rebuffed any attempt to lift him off and said he wanted to go down with the ship. Do you think this could be one of the reasons why? Interesting. Cheers Marc. Hi Marc, I know nothing of Thomas Crisp VC, it was just the name Crisp that jumped out at me as I have a couple of friends from the north-east with the same surname. Interesting though... I can see your point. What a tragic moment in his life to lose his wife whilst he was engaged in murderous war. And if the couple had no children? then I think that yes he did make a very honourable decision to stay with his ship as it went down, what future could he see in the present life. Perhaps a belief in the after-life where he could once again be with his beloved wife and be safe away from the dangers of what he had witnessed. Cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Marc, The question is impossible to answer with any certainty. However, he did have a son, who must have been 16 or 17 years of age, so I would have thought that was a good reason for him to carry on if it was possible. His last words to his son were "leave me be, I'm done for." Not quite the same as "I want to go down with the boat." Another consideration is that he was probably the skipper of the boat in peace time, which would account for his son being a member of the crew, and would want to ensure his son's succession as skipper when he retired. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypresman Posted 13 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Marc, The question is impossible to answer with any certainty. His last words to his son were "leave me be, I'm done for." Not quite the same as "I want to go down with the boat." Best wishes David Hi David- yes you are correct, it is impossible to answer with any cerainty, thats why I'm trying to get a 'feel' for his decision in what he did, before I put pen to paper. As to the quote on his alleged last words, whats not to say it is the same, especially if you read between the lines...... I think he could of been saved if he wanted to. His son was right next to him, why couldn't he just lift him off? Did his son know his father's time had come? If you have lost the love in your life, as he did, maybe you give up the will to live, even if you have children. His son was old enough to look after himself, so maybe he thought duty done. It just seems strange that he died not so long after his wife, like he had given up the will.... When I took the photo, that is the first thing that jumped out at me! It is good 2 people have give different points of view, Jon's is very interesting...anymore views would be welcome. Cheers Marc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Marc I think the idea that Crisp stayed with his stricken boat with the thought of being re-united with his recently dead wife is something of a romantic notion and flys somewhat in the face of the evidence. The links below describe the condition the captain was in just before the ship sank. One describes him as being "mortally wounded" and "too badly wounded to be moved", the other states that "half his body was blown away". I think that this brave man realised that it was a pointless exercise, and risky for his crew, to evacuate what was to all intents and purposes a dead man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crisp http://www.senseofplacesuffolk.co.uk/learn...homas_crisp.pdf Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Thomas Crisp is one of the Q-ship VCs featured in a new book entitled 'Smoke and Mirrors: Q-Ships against the U-boats in the First World War' by Deborah Lake, author of 'The Zeebrugge and Ostend Raids 1918'. By coincidence it is published tomorrow. Details here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smoke-Mirrors-Q-sh...TF8&s=books It will, of course, also be available from other booksellers. To declare an interest, I transcribed and translated some of the U-boat KTB (war diary) entries cited in the book, including the extract from the KTB of UC-63 relating to her engagement with the armed fishing smacks Nelson, skippered by Crisp, and Ethel & Millie. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 A bit of info for those that don't know of him....... CRISP, Thomas Skipper. Royal Naval Reserve. London Gazetted on 2nd November, 1917. Born on 28th April, 1876 at Lowestoft, Suffolk. Died on 15th August, 1917 in the North Sea. Memorial On a bell at St Margaret's Church, Lowestoft and on Chatham Memorial. Digest of Citation reads: On 15th August, 1917 in the North Sea, Skipper Crisp of HM Armed Smack NELSON was below packing fish when a German submarine opened fire. The skipper cleared Nelson for action just as a shell hit her below the waterline and another shell passed through the ship, mortally wounding the skipper, who, went on directing operations. He gave the order to abandon ship but he himself was too badly injured to be moved and went down with NELSON. Additional information:. Skipper Crisp also held a Distinguished Service Cross (DSC). Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 From the official report; “There was no confusion on board, not even when the seventh shell struck the skipper, passed through his side, through the deck, and cut through the side of the ship.” This shell was at least an 88mm possibly 105mm. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Charles, Have you got the report, and perhaps also the transcript of the enquiry (or are they the same thing)? If so, I would be very interested to see them. According to U-boat.net, boats of the UC II class had an 88mm deck gun. Some of them were fitted with a 105mm gun in 1918, but the events we are discussing here took place in August 1917. UC-63, again according to U-boat.net, was torpedoed and sunk by E52 on 1 November 1917 — the day before Crisp's VC was gazetted. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Mick, I do not have the full report; my source is “Fishermen in war time” Walter Wood and “The Auxiliary Patrol” E. Keble Chatterton, both quote the Official report and the Prime Ministers Speech in the House of Commons. The speech seems dramatically good but technically bad. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Thanks, Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 And as a general note, the published information on U-boat gun armament is unreliable, though that really isn't much of an issue here. UC 63 would have been fitted with an 88mm/30 caliber gun. As Mick said, it was the standard armament on UCII class submarines. The German naval 105mm gun was a 45 caliber weapon; the long barrel, shock of firing and extra weight was a problem on the UCII. The only case where the bigger gun was fitted an UCII that I am aware of was on UC 67 in the Mediterranean in 1918 and it was not a success. As for Crisp, he was facing about the toughest adversary he could encounter. The area were the action occurred was an operational work-up area for Flanders-based U-boats that were capable of operating through Dover (UCIIs, UBIIs, and later UBIIIs) and also patrolled by smaller boats that couldn't effectively deploy through Dover (UBIs, Crisp's earlier action was against far less dangerous UBIs). The UCII was the most powerful (fastest/best armed) U-boat available in Flanders at the time, and UC 63's commander and crew were experienced. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 January , 2007 Share Posted 13 January , 2007 Hi Whilst researching Thomas Crisp VC, I went off to photograph his wife's grave in Lowestoft. I couldn't help but notice he died not long after his wife did, a couple of months, and she was quite young. Now got me thinking, do you think he had give up on life and therefore thats why he stayed with his ship as it went down. He rebuffed any attempt to lift him off and said he wanted to go down with the ship. Do you think this could be one of the reasons why? Interesting. Cheers Marc. Hello Marc, I'm fascinated to see your comments on my Great Grandfather Skipper Thomas Crisp! I am curious to know why you have been researching him and photographing his grave? How did you know where to find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cross Posted 13 January , 2007 Share Posted 13 January , 2007 Marc is not alone in wanting to know more about Thomas Crisp VC - many of us are interested in the man. I am not sure that his body was recovered; I think the grave is that of his wife. Lowestoft has a marvelous online index of cemeteries. See link below... http://www.waveney.gov.uk/Environment/Ceme...eries_index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 13 January , 2007 Share Posted 13 January , 2007 Hello Marc, I'm fascinated to see your comments on my Great Grandfather Skipper Thomas Crisp! I am curious to know why you have been researching him and photographing his grave? How did you know where to find it? As a recipient of the Victoria Cross he is bound to attract the attention of researchers. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monte Posted 15 September , 2013 Share Posted 15 September , 2013 I married into the Crisp Family, I knew T Crisp Junior. I think he was 15 at the time his father was killed (having lied about his age as many did in WW1), The idea that Skipper Crisp died mourning his wife is a rather silly idea. He was a devoted family man, why would he choose to die leaving a teenage son to fend for himself. Fishermen of his generation were not that weak or soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 17 September , 2013 Share Posted 17 September , 2013 Find here the awards of V.C & DSC to Crisp ; CRISP Thomas N/E Skipper RNR 83P046 I'll Try Commodore Lowestoft 23.03.17 Gazetted Action with Enemy Submarines 01.02.17 DSC Engaged in action an enemy submarine on the morning of the 1st February, 1917, and damaged her by gunfire. Their Lordships' consider that Skipper Crisp acted with coolness and displayed good judgement during the action. CRISP Thomas DSC 10055DA Killed 15.08.17 Skipper RNR 83P170 H.M. Armed Smack Nelson Commodore in Charge Naval Base Lowestoft 02.11.17 Gazetted Action with enemy submarines 15.08.17 VC - Posthumous In recognition of his signal valour and devotion throughout the action with an enemy submarine on the 15th August, 1917. Early in the action he was hit by a 4-inch shell which took off both his legs at the thighs, and at the same time partly disembowelled him. In spite of the terrible nature of his wounds, he retained his consciousness, and his first thought was to report to the Commodore-in-Charge, Lowestoft, giving instructions to his Mate (who was his son) what to write on the pigeon message, which was duly sent. He refused to be moved into the small boat when they had to abandon the vessel as she sank his last request being that he might be thrown overboard and left. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 August , 2023 Share Posted 15 August , 2023 Remembered Today on the Great War Forum: Skipper Thomas CRISP Victoria Cross, Distinguished Service Cross H.M. Smack "Nelson." Royal Naval Reserve, who died 15/08/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 15 August , 2023 Share Posted 15 August , 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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