Introduction and new Question TDStations

[broadtown]

Dear list,

Introduction.

Hi, my name is Bob Clarke. I am site archaeologist at Boscombe Down and lecture for the University of Bath. I also publish and are currently researching the archaeology of airfields (well It would be rude not to being at Boscombe) for publication at the end of next year and wondered if this brilliant list could help.

Tall order but - How many TDS were there in Britain? Is there a diffinative list?

Best wishes

Bob Clarke

www.clarkeology.co.uk

[MikeW]

Hi Bob,

welcome aboard.

I assume you only want Training Depot Stations, not what they were before, and what they became afterwards?

1 TDS Stamford

2 TDS Lake Down

3 TDS Lopcombe Corner

4 TDS Ternhill

5 TDS Easton On The Hill

6 TDS Boscombe Down

7 TDS Feltwell

8 TDS Netheravon

9 TDS Shawbury

10 TDS Harling Road

11 TDS Old Sarum

12 TDS Netheravon

13 TDS Ternhill

14 TDS Lake Down

15 TDS Hucknall

21 TDS Driffield

22 TDS Gormanston

23 TDS Baldonnel

24 TDS Collinstown

25 TDS Cookstown (later named Tallaght)

26 TDS Edzell

27 TDS Crail

28 TDS Weston On The Green

29 TDS Beaulieu

30 TDS Northolt

31 TDS Fowlmere

32 TDS Montrose

33 TDS Witney

34 TDS Scampton

35 TDS Thetford

36 TDS Yatesbury

37 TDS Yatesbury

38 TDS Tadcaster

39 TDS Spitalgate

40 TDS Harlaxton

41 TDS London Colney

42 TDS Hounslow

43 TDS Chattis Hill

44 TDS Oxford

45 TDS Rendcomb

46 TDS South Carlton

47 TDS Doncaster

48 TDS Waddington

49 TDS Catterick

50 TDS Eastbourne

51 TDS Shotwick

52 TDS Cramlington

53 TDS Dover (St Margarets)

54 TDS Fairlop

55 TDS Manston

56 TDS Cranwell

57 TDS Cranwell

58 TDS Cranwell

59 TDS Portholme Meadow

61 TDS Tangmere

201 TDS Cranwell

202 TDS Cranwell

203 TDS Manston

204 TDS Eastchurch

206 TDS Eastbourne

207 TDS Chingford

208 TDS East Fortune

209 TDS Lee On Solent

210 TDS Calshot

211 TDS Portholme Meadow

213 TDS Cranwell

Phew! I hope that lot doesn't put you off.

Mike

[MikeW]

I should have said there were others of course, but not situated in Britain.

Mike

[broadtown]

Blimey Mike. Thanks for that.

Ok here we go. What comes after is fairly well covered. Its the 1914-1918 bit that I have found difficult. I notice that Cranwell features a number of times, is this similar to Yatesbury where the airfield physically had two TDS on site at the same time?

Also you note that some were other things before hand. Netheravon is probably one example but which were the others?

I must say the information you have already sent has driven this on no end.

I have an aerial shot of Boscombe under construction (Belfast truss going up) should I post it on here do you think?

Best wishes

Bob

[mickdavis]

Both post are essentially correct but I think they might need some explanation.

The TDS system seems to have resulted from a visit by Robert Smith Barry (CO 1 TS Gosport) to inspect the French training system. The French had training centres that had a central aerodrome, with numerous satellites, that delivered all-through traniing.

1 SSF at Gosport was the first product of Smith Barry's findings, being an amalgamation of 1. 27 & 55 TS.

The TDS system began in August 1917 and the first seven were formed. The idea was to save time and money. Hitherto, pilots had been post to an Elementary TS and then graduated to a Higher TS, usually at a different station. A TDS provided all-through training. bar final instruction at at School of Aerial Fightiing or, later, Fighting School.

The TDS system was expanded after the formation of the RAF, until there were 61. There were 5 in Egypt and 2 in France. Each in the UK and Ireland had a type specialisation. 6 TDS, for example, trained day light bombing pilots. Most TDS were the equivalent to three TS, but not all. 6 TDS was intended to operate 36 DH4/9 + 36 Avros. Other typrs, BE2e and RE8 were used.

The listings posted ignore the fact that :-

The original 2 TDS moved to Stonehenge from Lake Down in December 1017. It too was a day light bomber training unit and disbanded into 1 School of Aerial Navigarion & Bomb Dropping in January 1918. Gullane (WW2 Drem) became 2 TDS in April 1918, as a scout training unit, intended to operate 36 SE5a & 36 Avro - initially it also had Pups and Camels.

44 TDS was originally at Port Meadow (Oxford) but re-located to Bicester in Ocober 1918.

201, 202 & 213 TDS at Cranwell were re-designated 56, 57 and 58 TDS, repectively (scout, day light bombing and heavy night bombing).

203 TDS at Manston was re-designated 55 TDS and moved toNarborough.

206 TDS at Eastbourne amalgamated with 54 TS to form 50 TDS at that station.

207 TDS at Fairlop was re-designated 54 TDS.

208 TDS at East Fortune lasted about a month before its components disbanded into the Fleet SAF&G and 1 Torpedo Traing Squadron.

211 TDS at Portholme Meadow (Huntingdon) was re-designated 59 TDS.

In the post-war run down, many TDS disbanded but some survived until autumn 1919, retaining their numbers but being designated Training Schools.

For 6 TDS i have :-

6 TRAINING DEPOT STATION RFC/RAF

Base

Nucleus flights formed 1.10.1917 at Waddington (A Flt from 82 Sqn), Spittlegate (B Flt from 83 Sqn) and Yatesbury (C Flt from 59 TS). Unit formed in 36th Wing at Boscombe Down 12.10.1917 with arrival of flights. Autumn 1918 establishment 36 DH4/9 + 36 Avro. To 33rd Wing by 11.1918. Disbanded 15.5.1919.

Representative Aeroplanes

Airco DH4 B5460, B5497, B5521, B5523, B5525, B5526, B5527.

Airco DH6 B2742, B2745, B2746, B2753, B7977, C6801.

Airco DH9 C1157, C6061, C6089, D491, D1094, D1315, D2903, D2982, D2997, D3001, D3077, D3109, F1845, F1856.

Avro 504A/J B8819.

Avro 504J/K E1866, E3323.

AW FK8 B4196, C8408, C8410, C8428, C8614.

RAF BE2c 2790.

RAF BE2e 6305, A1309, A1402, B4037, B4042, B4407, B4576, B4577, B8855, B4442, C6904, C6905, C6926, C7104, C7117.

RAF BE12 6161.

RAF RE8

Sopwith Pup B6148.

[davidhaines]

I came across your researches relating to TDS while trying to find out about a photo I have of my grandfather in uniform. On the back is a ditty about the Flying Corp which I copy below and which I would think would have sung. It is addressed from 28 TDS RAF, 24 March 1919.

The only reference I have found to 28 TDS indicates that it was opened in the Summer of 1918 and was equipped with Avro 504K's and Sopwith Camels, closing in 1919.

Can anyone provide any further information about 28 TDS, and as he was posted there can I assume he was training as a pilot, or might he have been training as a technician?

Many thanks if anyone can help.

THE DITTY

We are the Flying Corp,

We never go to war,

We're jolly good flyers,

And much better liers (sic)

We are respected wherever we go.

When we go marching down the Old Kent Road,

Doors and windows open wide,

(Throwing bricks)

We are the boys of the R.F.C.

We don't care a d - for the infantry

We are the Flying Corp.

[mickdavis]

28 TRAINING DEPOT STATION RAF

Base

Formed in 21st Wing at Weston-on-the-Green 27.7.1918 ex 61 and 70 TS. Autumn 1918 intended establishment 36 Salamander + 36 Avro. Disbanded 3.1919.

Commanding Officers

Representative Aeroplanes

Avro 504J/K D2023, D2040, E4336, F8749.

Sopwith F1 Camel B7433, C68, C69, C1612, C1660, C8301, D2023, E1530, F6337, F6375, F6379, F6381, F6383, F6387.

Sopwith Salamander

[davidhaines]

28 TRAINING DEPOT STATION RAF

Base

Thanks very much for that Mick. It occurs to me that, with so many aircraft at the Station, they would have needed mechanics to maintain them and as my grandfather was a very good "bush mechanic" that may have been his function. I think his records must have been amongst those destroyed in WW2 as I have been unable to find any. My mother said that, before he died, he had mentioned being posted to India - do you know if there were there any RAF Stations in India at that time (1919)?

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Welcome to the forum David,

RAF service record were not destroyed in WW2, they are in AIR 79 at Kew, offline original documents. They are in service number order so you need to know what that number was. Also not all are open to the public so if he served past the cut off date ,the records are only accessable via MOD.

A Flight, 31 Squadron set off for India in 1915 so there were several air stations by 1919. Mostly on the North-West Frontier. campaigns around 1919 included Afghanistan; Mahsud, 1919-1920; Waziristan,1919-1925.