Military Prisons

[Guest mruk]

Hello Nightowls, and all on Duty Watch,

I was talking to an old Matelot from Preston the other day, and he mentioned that the prison on Ribbleton Lane was once used as a Royal Navy Detention Quarters . Admittedly, we were talking about WW2, but what of the prisons of the Great War?

I should imagine they would have been located in the larger garrison towns and seaports--Leeds, Grantham, and Portsmouth, etc., but where else?

Does anyone have a list or know of any prisons in the UK; and why would Preston be used as a detention centre for naval ratings when it was so far inland? What of officers who had been cashiered or court-martialled? Where were they held? Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Dave

[montbrehain]

I know australian soldiers were held at lewes in east sussex ? and at shepton mallet in somerset and possibly dartmoor too. Be interesting to know if somebody does have a list somewhere.

[joseph]

Dave,

Nearest I have to a list.

Kings Regulations and Admiralty Instructions 1913

Chapter XIX Section V article 770(2)

Selection of Place of Confinement.-

The space provided on the warrant (S. 271) for the insertion of the name of the gaol or detention establishment to which the prisoner is to be sent, is to be left blank when in the presence of a Commander-in-Chief or Senior Officer, so that the latter may fill in the blank space at his discretion, according to the accommodation available.

Men in ships in home waters sentenced to imprisonment for civil offences who are not to be dismissed or discharged from the Service, and all men in such ships awarded imprisonment for disciplinary offences, are (except when the travelling expenses would be prohibitive, e.g., from the North of England) to be sent to Bodmin Naval Prison, irrespective of the nature of offence or the length of sentence.

In all other cases, men sentenced to imprisonment at home are to be sent to a civil prison; those from Devonport, Portsmouth, and Chatham respectively to the civil prisons at Bodmin, Portsmouth, and Canterbury. These civil prisons should also be used by ships at other ports within a convenient distance, except that men from ships at Portland should be sent to Dorchester civil prison.

Men sentenced to imprisonment abroad should be sent to a detention establishment if possible. Should accommodation be insufficient, recourse must be had to civil prisons, but, so far as practicable, these should only be used for men convicted of offences against the ordinary law. Men sentenced to imprisonment or detention for more than nine months should, if practicable, be sent to England to complete their sentences.

Men in ships in home waters sentenced to detention are to be committed to the following establishments so far as accommodation is available:

a. From the Nore, Station. - Naval Detention Quarters at Chatham.

b. From Portsmouth Station. - Naval Detention Quarters at Portsmouth.

c. From Devonport Station. - Naval Detention Quarters at Devonport.

d. From Ports in Scotland Military Detention Barracks at Stirling or York Castle.

e. From Ports in Ireland Military Detention Barracks at Cork or Dublin.

They are to wear their uniform, and take their bags and hammocks with them. Those who will undergo their sentence in a naval detention quarters are to be sent under escort to the Royal Naval Barracks.

Regards Charles

[themonsstar]

Hi

I am sure Army Orders has a full list this one is from "A.O. 223. 1916" Military Detention Barracks (1) Lewes. This detention barrack will be closed on 30th June, 1916. Soldiers sentenced to detention who would, under present arrangements, be sent to Lewes Detention Barrcaks, will be committed to the Detention Barrack at Gosport, or should there be no vacant accommodation therein, to Aldershot or Wandsworth Detention Barracks, whichever place has accommodation available.

(2) Mold. In pursuance of the powers vested in him by Section 133 of the Army Act, the Secretary of State has set apart St.David's Convent at Mold as a military branch detention barracks, and has declared the same to be a military branch detention barrack accordingy.

[PhilB]

why would Preston be used as a detention centre for naval ratings when it was so far inland?

Many Thanks,

Dave

Preston actually had a functioning docks in WW1. It`s now a marina. It became too difficult to keep the Ribble dredged for big ships. Phil B

[nfh249]

Wakefield Prison was used as an Army Detention Barracks, at least in 1916 when my great grandfather served 60 days there for going AWOL (he was allowed out to get married and 'Wakefield Detention Barracks' was given as his address).

Regards,

Neil.

[Moonraker]

In the case of Wiltshire:

In the years immediately before the Great War, soldiers based on Salisbury Plain served detention of up to seven days in camp, longer periods being spent at Gosport detention barracks. The more serious offences against military regulations could result in spells at Woking military prison; those against civil law could lead to sentences being served at Winchester prison. There are also wartime references to Devizes detention barracks (perhaps in the Wiltshire Regiment barracks) and to an "Australian prison compound near Stonehenge" - possibly at Fargo, part of Larkhill Camp. At least one Australian soldier convcited of murder was executed at Shepton Mallet prison.

Moonraker

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks to All,

I'll certainly check out the Army Orders. This could make for an interesting study, providing charge sheets and warrants survive. I know the PRO keep a number of documents relating to those 'Shot at Dawn', but what of those accused and convicted of lesser charges; I wonder if newspapers also covered sentencing? Thanks for the attachment Phil B, and to all concerned. Your input and guidance is greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards'

Dave

[joseph]

Dave,

I’m sure most prisons had Naval or Military inmates.

Preston is substantially a Victorian radial prison. Its wings were constructed between 1840 and 1895 on a site occupied since 1790. The prison closed in 1931, reopened for military use in 1939 and as a civilian prison in 1948. It became a local prison in 1990.

Regards Charles

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks Charles,

I suppose Preston was just one of the many initiatives that were introduced in prison design and construction during the mid-19th Century. The Gaol in Leeds [Armley] opened in 1847. With regard to military prisons though, my Dad seems to think there may have been one in what he calls 'Coburg Barracks' in Leeds. [behind the former Coburg Pub- now named 'Japonic'--just off Woodhouse Lane] It makes sense, Leeds was a large garrison town with something like five barracks. Leeds Metropolitan University was built on the former Fenton Barracks in the 1960s, if I'm not mistaken. [The Fenton used to be another good boozer]. Enough talk of drink, I'm beginning to feel thirsty!

Kind Regards,

Dave

[tintin1689]

http://www.1914-1918.net/provost.htm

Honestly, I write you a nice article and you don't even read it - lol

Seriously, although it does show civil facilities taken over it does not list the pre-war establishments or the Domininion ones.

[Guest mruk]

Sorry Lol,

I'd checked out the LLT site so many times before joining, but never thought to question the disciplinary side of military life. It's an excellent link and well-written article. I've awarded myself '14 Days No. 9's' [RN] as a punishment. I'm usually more diligent. Many thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Moonraker]

I've just discovered this excellent article about the setting up of an Australian Imperial Force detention barracks at Lewes, Sussex:

here.

But I'm not sure about the author's argument that it was easier to take the train from Tidworth to Lewes (via Portsmouth) than to Gloucester - another suggested site. The author says that this would have meant going via London, but all it would have entailed was taking the Midland & South Western Junction Railway from Ludgershall (or even Tidworth itself) to Swindon and then change on to the Gloucester line.

Moonraker

PS The article seems to have found its way onto a number of sites, including

this one

which lists in a side bar a number of other Great War-related articles:

Everything on its belly'--feeding the first AIF problems and solutions of Australian Army rationing and catering in the First World War (1).

An Annotated Index, for military historians, to Volume 14, (1940-1980, Di-Kel) of the Australian Dictionary of Biography.(Bibliography)

The relevance of miscellany administrative, support and logistic units of the AIF.

The organisation of the Imperial Camel Brigade, 1916-1918.

The court martial of an AIF Catholic chaplain.

Military Historical Society of Australia: 2004 Biennial Conference 2 to 4 October 2004 Army Museum Bandiana.(Conference Program and Registration Form)

Peter Cochrane. The Western Front 1916-1918.(Book Review)

1804 Private John Carroll VC: St Yves, Belgium (Battle of Messines) 7-11 June 1917.(Biography)

Photo album.

"Unconscious of any distinction"? Social and vocational quality in the Australian Flying Corps, 1914-1918 [1].

[Guest Hecate]

Please can somebody help me? AO 223 of 1916 says Lewes Military Detention Barracks will close on 30th June 1916. I want to know which prison in Lewes it was referring to. The House of Correction became a military prison at the time of the Crimean War, then a Naval Prison from 1898 till 1910 when it was given to the civil authorities, It was a German Prisoner of War camp from November 1917. The other prison - the main prison- was built in 1853 and housed civilian prisoners and military prisoners. In 1916 it was used for Sinn Fein prisoners after the Easter Rebellion in Dublin.

[Magnumbellum]

Wakefield Prison was used as an Army Detention Barracks, at least in 1916 when my great grandfather served 60 days there for going AWOL (he was allowed out to get married and 'Wakefield Detention Barracks' was given as his address).

It would help to clarify this somewhat complex issue if a more precise date than just "1916" could be cited for this incident.

From c October 1916 Wakefield Prison was converted to a Work Centre under the Home Office Scheme for conscientious objectors. If the cited use as a Detention Barracks was prior to October 1916, that would fit, but if the cited use was later, then it would suggest dual use, at least for a period, although such dual use has not previously been mentioned in any accounts I have seen.

[Magnumbellum]

In the case of Wiltshire:

In the years immediately before the Great War, soldiers based on Salisbury Plain served detention of up to seven days in camp, longer periods being spent at Gosport detention barracks. The more serious offences against military regulations could result in spells at Woking military prison; those against civil law could lead to sentences being served at Winchester prison.

There is confusion here. Military law has always provided for imprisonment for some military offences as well as for offences against ordinary civilian law when tried by court martial. During WW1 Winchester civil prison held several hundred men sentenced by court-martial for purely military offences.

[nfh249]

It would help to clarify this somewhat complex issue if a more precise date than just "1916" could be cited for this incident.

Off hand I can't tell you specifically, but it is before August 1916 as my grandfather was born in that month and they were married beforehand,

[Magnumbellum]

That is sufficient to clarify that the use of Wakefield Prison as a military detention centre was before its conversion, probably in September 1916, to a Work Centre for conscientious objectors under the Home Office Scheme.