Simon Jones Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 I am looking for details of the German attack of 12 February 1916 while the 14th Division was being relieved by the 20th Division. The 12th Rifle Brigade are the unit hit and part of the garrison are cut off for several days and eventually brought in by the 12th KRRC (both 60th Bde, 20th Div). The Michelin guide to Ypres says that the Germans captured one of the British trenches for a length of 600 yds, which becomes known as International Trench. Is this correct and that the name was not in use in 1915? Does anyone have a map of the position from before or after the attack? I believe this in the Diggers territory. Many thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 The Michelin guide to Ypres says that the Germans captured one of the British trenches for a length of 600 yds, which becomes known as International Trench. Is this correct and that the name was not in use in 1915? Simon, The name International Trench definitely dates from 1915. I can't say right now when for the very first time it was used in texts, but it is on maps and diagrams as early as June - July 1915. (I'm thinking of regimental histories of Rifle Brigade, East Lancashire Regiment and maybe others) The trench can also be seen in German sources, be it without the name International Trench (the southernmost point of it being named Südspitze). Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 4 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Thank you Aurel Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Hi Simon The 6th & 5th K.S.L.I. were also involved, in fact it may have been the relief of the 5th K.S.L.I. by its sister battalion the 6th which gave the Germans inkling that a relief was being carried out, this chance meeting caused great please and greetings were exchanged. The relief was still in progress when the bombardment started, the Germans got into trenches F34 & F35, they also tryed to get into trenches still held by the 5th K.S.L.I. but were driven off. Here is map I got of Aurel's website when he was with the diggers. It shows F34 & International Trench, F35 is out of shot. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 German map after attack of 6th July 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 There is a photo at the Canadian Archives site entitled The BLUFF from International Trench which you may find interesting. In addition, there are some copies of relevant war diairies on-line, for example of the 2nd Army . It is from those that I post this map snippet. I cannot find the term "International Trench" used anywhere. (That does not mean it is not there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 The name International Trench definitely dates from 1915. I can't say right now when for the very first time it was used in texts, but it is on maps and diagrams as early as June - July 1915. (I'm thinking of regimental histories of ... ... East Lancashire Regiment ... ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 jhill, I dont think the 'Bluff from International trench' is the same 'International trench' we are talking here about. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 4 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Annette - Many thanks. That is a coincidence: 5th KSLI 42 Bde 14 Div and 6th KSLI 60 Bde 20 Div. James - thanks but (as Cnock points out) I am sorry you have the wrong International Trench! By another coincidence the Bluff was also attacked at exactly the same time as that in the north. Both attacks were part of a series of diversions to coincide with the opening of the Vedun offensive which was originally planned to begin on 12 February 1916. Dave – Many thanks. I assume it is from the E Lancs history. Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 The Michelin guide to Ypres says that the Germans captured one of the British trenches for a length of 600 yds, which becomes known as International Trench. Is this correct and that the name was not in use in 1915? Does anyone have a map of the position from before or after the attack? I believe this in the Diggers territory. Simon. according to the OH (I know!!! )... On 12th Feb 1916, the Germans broke into the British front line (possibly international trench which, as you can see above, was once the German frontline captured in 1915) but were driven out by immediate counter-attack - the 12/KRRC losing 4 Offs and 180 ORs in the process. The attack was repeated, without success in the evening and again on the 19th Feb where they occupied "a trench" for a time. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 I am sorry you have the wrong International Trench! The wonder of trench names!!! Two of the 3 "International Trenches" in the Ypres salient get a mention here!!! Dave. (Yes, Simon. It's from the ELR history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 4 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Thanks Dave, the OH is one of the few sources I have for this! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Hi Simon International trench was not captured on 12th Feb. 1916, F35 & 34 are above and to the left of International trench. F35 & 34 were recaptured on the 12th but the Germans then shelled F35 to bits, and the troops in it withdrawal to trench a little further back. On 19th Feb. the Germans got into British line on the right of F34 and also got in on the right of F33. The Divisional history goes on to say F30 became isolated and a withdrawl was made from this trench (I am sure they mean F31 but that is just my throughts, on a map dated 1-4-17 it looks F30 is still the front line ?), anyway the 19th is the day that the ground were International trench is located was given up. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 Simon, The 12th R.B.'s War Diary for this attack makes interesting reading. 12 Midnight. The relief commenced about midnight 12th 2 a.m. At about 2 a.m. while the relief was still in progress a bomb attack was made on the trenches F34 + F35, accompanied by considerable artillery + trench mortar fire on WELLGATE and WYATTS LANE. The attack on F34 came from the left, front and right. The attack from left and front were repulsed by rifle + grenade fire, the Germans leaving 5 dead behind. On the right a party of German bombers came along the parapet of the disused trench and jumped down into our trench. One was shot by the Sergeant, and the others surrendered after being slightly wounded by a grenade. The remainder then retired. It was impossible to tell the numbers as it was a very dark night. However the prisoners stated that the attack on F35 was made by a Sgt Major and 40 men. At the same time an attack was made on the head of the sap at F35. The available grenades soon ran out & trhe Germans bombed their way along the whole length of F35 where they were stopped by rifle fire. The grenade stores in FARGATE had been blown in the evening before the arrival of the battalion. The number of grenades that the battalion grenadier officer had been able to take across from the battalion stores, after his arrival and before the attack was not sufficient for a counter attack. A message was sent to the O.C. 12th KRR asking for 2 bombing sections which arrived after half an hour. Supported by these two sections the battalion grenadier officer, 2nd Lieut. Gribble, counter attacked with these two sections, and after about half an hour, recaptured the whole of F35 and also a few yards of German trenches. Here 2nd Lieut. Gribble was severly wounded while making a block. Considerable difficulty was found in getting grenades up quickly enough as the men were over there knees in mud. The Germans then withdrew out of bombing distance + bombarded the trench with trench mortars and artillery + we had to gradually withdraw as the trench got blown in. During the day several blocks were made by Captain Finch who was in command of D Coy, + these were used successively as each lot of trench was blown in. The enemy artillery fire slackened at day break and it was comparitively quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 4 July , 2006 Share Posted 4 July , 2006 2.30 p.m. At 2.30 p.m. the artillery fire increased considerably. All the front trenches were heavily shelled as was also FARGATE and the west bank of the CANAL. During the morning the battalion had been reinforced by 3 grenadier sections 12th KRRC. 3 grenadier sections 6th K.S.L.I. and two platoons of the 12th KRRC. The garrison of FARGATE was increased and 1 grenade section placed at extremity of our line on W. bank of canal where our line joins the French. 2.30 p.m. As soon as the artillery fire increased at 2.30 p.m., 1 coy 6th K.S.L.I. was moved up to W. Canal bank in support and C Coy was sent to billets. 3.30 p.m. Artillery fire again increased in intensuty. Warning that a German attack was anticipated was received from G.O.C. 4.10 p.m. At 4.10 p.m. the artillery bombardment became intense and lasted 20 minutes till 4.30 p.m. The W. bank of CANAL and bridges were very heavily shelled by 5.9" & 8" Howitzers. It was computed that 300 enemy guns were firing on 12th Rifle Brigade Battalion front. During the bombardment all front line trenches were very severely damaged. E29 was obliterated, E28 was practically destroyed with the exception of 3 bays. F30 was also very severely damaged. 4.30 p.m. At 4.30 p.m. the hostile artillery fire lifted and formed barrages on the road behind the CANAL. Both sides of the CANAL Banks were also heavily shelled. At the same time 3 infantry attacks were made on trenches F34, F30 and E28. During the attack on F34 2nd Lieut. Palmer was wounded in the chest by a bomb. No Germans got into the trench & were driven back by rifle & grenade fire. The attack on F30 where 2nd Lieut. F.J. Fish was in command was also beaten back although the garrison was reduced to 1 Sergeant and 7 men. E28 was practically destroyed but the remaining garrison under 2nd Lieut. F. Lockwood-Wingate, held all the existing bays + the attack was driven back. Captain K.R. Habershon who was at Batt. H.Q.'s when the bombardment commenced immediately proceeded to the front line. Finding the fire on Bridge 6D very intense, he took shelter in a dug-out + was killed by a shell which burst on the dug-out and demolished it. 6.30 p.m. The enemy artillery fire practically ceased, but all telephone communication was broken and it was impossible to find out the damage or to hear from all posts. Nothing had been heard from F31 but it was presumed the garrison of 42 men under 2nd Lieut. B.R.C. Read was all right. During the night of 12th/13th C Coy relieved D Coy in F35, F34 and FARGATE. 2nd Lieut. Fish in F30 was reinforced by 30 men of B Coy. Reinforcements were also received from G.O.C. of 40 bombers from Oxs & Bucks L.I. 24 were sent to hold the bombing post in F35, and 16 to hold GROUSE BUTTS. Simon, if you need a copy of the War Diary let me know. Also just been asked about this attack on Rootschat, wasn't you was it Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 5 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Andy This is fantastic. I have also found your posting of extracts from the RB Chronicles. I am going to try a rough overlay of a modern aerial photo and a trench map to establish how this fighting relates to the excavated section of Yorkshire Trench. I am taking a battlefield tour out in a couple of weeks on 1916 Forgotten Battles and want to include this one. It wasn’t me on Rootschat. Many thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 5 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2006 I have made some rough overlays and am getting a picture of the British losing a lot of their line in 1915 and also in 1916. In February 1916 it seems they are pushed back from F30, F31, F32 etc and Yorkshire trench becomes the front line. The German International Trench is called Canal Avenue on British maps by 1917 Is Yorkshire Trench originally part of the same trench? Here is a modern aerial view with a February 1917 trench map overlaid. Unfortunately the aerial view was taken before the development and excavation of Yorkshire Trench. It does not include the canal as that is on the next page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 5 July , 2006 Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Simon, The 12th's War Diary covers quite a bit more leading up to this attack regarding the state of the area and the aftermath, casualties etc etc. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 5 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Here is the July 1915 map from the East Lancs history overlaid over that – very approximate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 5 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Here is Aurel's map posted by Annette overlaid – again very approximate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 5 July , 2006 Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Simon, Just checked the Regimental accounts too, there is a fair bit in the Regimental History covering this action if it is of use to you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Milner Posted 5 July , 2006 Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Andy My grandfather, Rifleman Horace Womble 12th RB, was wounded during this period, I would certainly appreciate a copy of the War Diary please. Regards John Milner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 5 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Simon, Just checked the Regimental accounts too, there is a fair bit in the Regimental History covering this action if it is of use to you. Andy Andy War Diary & Regimental accounts both sound interesting. Here is the map from the 2nd Army War Diary form the Canadian archives website as located by James – sorry you were spot on and got the right International Trench with this one. There is creeping error probably because the digitisation was carried out by camera without adjustment to the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 5 July , 2006 Share Posted 5 July , 2006 Simon, The 1st Bn. Rifle Brigade attacked here on the 6th July 1915. It was known as International Trench then. Map of 1915. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 5 July , 2006 Share Posted 5 July , 2006 John, Drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send a copy of the War Diary to you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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