Oldest Casualty

[nfh249]

I've just been working on my casualty database for the East Riding of Yorkshire Yeomanry and came across this man:-

HAWORTH-BOOTH, BENJAMIN BOOTH

Initials: B B

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Major

Regiment: East Riding Yeomanry

Age: 62

Date of Death: 08/11/1919

Additional information: Son of Benjamin Blaydes Haworth-Booth and Cordelia Haworth-Booth; husband of Meta Haworth-Booth, of Winding Wood, Camberley, Surrey.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Cemetery: GOLDERS GREEN CREMATORIUM

OK, so he died after the end of the war and presumably 'died out of action', but it set me wondering, does anyone know who is the oldest casualty??

Regards,

Neil

[John_Hartley]

Neil

I think it's often accepted to be Lt Henry Webber, aged 67, Buried at Dartmoor Cemetery.

Unless anyone knows different........

John

[Terry Denham]

John

As you didn't specify 'died in action', here you are....

Name: ROBERTS, Sir FREDERICK SLEIGH

Initials: F S

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Field Marshal

Regiment: General Staff

Secondary Unit Text: and Col.-Commandant, Royal Artillery, Col. Irish Guards.

Age: 82

Date of Death: 14/11/1914

Awards: VC, KG, KP, GCB, OM, GCSI, GCIE

Additional information: 1st Earl of Kandahar, Pretoria and Waterford. Born at Cawnpore, India. Privy Counsellor. Son of the late Gen. Sir Abraham Roberts, G.C.B., and the late Lady Roberts; husband of the late Countess Roberts, C.I., R.R.C., of Englemere, Ascot, Berks. Educated at Eton, Sandhurst and Addiscombe. Commissioned to the Bengal Artillery (Dec., 1851); served throughout the Indian Mutiny 1857 (V.C.); and the Abyssinian (1867-68) and Lushai (1871-72) Expeditions. Also served in the Afghanistan Campaign (1878-80) and Commanded the Kabul-Kandahar Field Force Aug.-Sept., 1880. Commanded the Forces in Ireland (1895-99); Commander-in-Chief in the South African War (1899-1900). Commander-in-Chief in India (1885-93) and at Home (1901-04). Master Gunner of St. James' Park and Colonel-in-Chief of Overseas and Indian Forces in the United Kingdom during the Great War.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Cemetery: ST. PAUL'S CATHEDRAL

[John_Hartley]

As you didn't specify 'died in action', here you are....

We are both gentlemen, sah, so I will not call this a cheat.....

.....however, Neil asked about the oldest casualty.

Yours, taking the moral high ground

John

(PS; good call though)

[Hedley Malloch]

Weber is the oldest casualty in CWGC care. I think there is one older, who is not in CWGC care, buried in the civilian plot in Wimereux, a large WW1 base where many officers lived with their families.

[PhilB]

I have sympathy with your view, John (As always!). But he does appear to have died of the effects of the exigencies of service. An odd point is that his body was allowed to come home - one of the few to do so from WW1.

Quote:-

Major Hereward Wake had been Lord Roberts's A.D.C. in South Africa and, as a member of G.H.Q., was on the spot to accompany him; while Major Lewin, his son-in-law, had also specially come to St. Omer from his battery. The Indian troops were visited on the following day, and on that evening Lord Roberts and his daughter dined at Wilson's cheery mess. Next day, accompanied by Wilson and Lewin, they proceeded to Cassel to pay a visit to General Foch, with whom the Field­-Marshal exchanged graceful compliments and who produced maps on which the course of the recent fighting was made clear. The party then went on to Bailleul to see more of the Indian troops, Wilson, however, remaining with Foch as Sir John was coming out for a discussion. Lord Roberts unfortunately contracted a chill during this day, which happened to be very wet and stormy, and when Wilson went to Sir John's house late at night to inquire, he learnt that the doctor took a serious view of his patient's condition as pneumonia was developing. By next morning the case had become grave, the doctors who were called in agreed that there could be little hope in view of the Field-Marshal's great age, and Lewin crossed the Channel in the afternoon to convey the painful news to Lady Roberts at Englemere. Wilson wrote in his diary that night (November 14th):—

The little Chief got steadily worse. I was in and out all day with Aileen, and took her for a little walk at 4 o'clock. At 7.45 p.m. Hereward sent for me. When I got there the Chief was dying. Aileen, Hereward, and I, with 3 doctors and 3 nurses were with him to the end. He died at 8 p.m. in absolute peace and quiet. The story of his life is thus completed as he would have wished himself, dying in the middle of the soldiers he loved so well and within the sound of the guns.

He wrote next day:—

I saw Aileen and Hereward off at 7:30 a. m. for Calais, and I feel easier in my mind. I went round and saw the little man, lying so gracefully in his bed…. Saw Sir John at 2 o'clock. He told me that he wished me to take the little Chief home and to represent the "Army in the Field" at the funeral. I am proud, glad, and sorry.

[Guest geoff501]

We are both gentlemen, sah, so I will not call this a cheat.....

.....however, Neil asked about the oldest casualty.

Yours, taking the moral high ground

John

(PS; good call though)

Just a minute John, your reply looks like hesitation, so I will maintain the thread's deviation:

Name: BROWNLOW, Sir CHARLES HENRY

Initials: C H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Field Marshal

Regiment: General Staff

Unit Text: and

Secondary Regiment: 20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry (Brownlow's Punjabis)

Secondary Unit Text: and

Age: 84

Date of Death: 05/04/1916

Awards: GCB

Additional Information: Of Warfield Hall, Bracknell, Berks. Son of Col. George A. Browlow; husband of the late Georgiana Brownlow (nee King). Commanded 20th (The Duke of Cambridge's Own Punjab) Bengal Infantry, 1857-72 (Regiment later retitled 20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry (Brownlow's Punjabis) - Hon. Col. from 1904). A.D.C. to H.M. Queen Victoria, 1869-81. Assistant Military Secretary for Indian Affairs at Horse Guards, 1879-89.

Casuality Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: In NE corner.

Cemetery: WARFIELD (ST. MICHAEL) CHURCHYARD EXTENSION

and..

Name: CLEMENTS, GEORGE WILLIAM VALENTINE

Initials: G W V

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Captain (Quartermaster)

Regiment: 1st (Royal) Dragoons

Age: 85

Date of Death: 03/03/1916

Additional Information: Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Son of the late William and Charlotte Clements, of Norwich; husband of Jane Elizabeth Clements, of 3, Chapel Field North, Norwich. Served in the Crimean War, 185356 (Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman and Sebastopol) and Turkish Medal. (One of the oldest know service deaths)..

Casuality Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 24. 167.

Cemetery: NORWICH CEMETERY

[Terry Denham]

John

Fair enough. In my terminology, those that died of accident/illness are also 'casualties'.

There is an even older one from WW2!

Hedley

Sorry to disagree but the oldest person in CWGC care is WO.I John Henderson White Royal Engineers (Retd) Aged 101 Brookwood Military Cemetery. (a Chelsea Pensioner). I realise this is a 'person' and not a 'casualty'.

Phil

Just being pedantic.... He was not 'allowed' home but repatriation was permitted for anyone prior to mid 1915 and so it is not so odd.

Geoff

I forgot those. Well done.

[John_Hartley]

In my terminology, those that died of accident/illness are also 'casualties'.

Aye, fair do's.

Call it a draw, then?

john

[nfh249]

I must admit I was thinking along the same terminology lines as Terry

So 85 seems to be the oldest so far. So how does a Captain end up serving until 85 years of age? I hope nobody suggests that as a retirement age anytime soon

Neil.

[Terry Denham]

Call it a draw, then?

Agreed!

[Terry Denham]

Neil

85 is the oldest WW1 war grave age stated in CWGC's database but there is a 92 year old entry for WW2. (Although many do not state an age!).

CWGC look after many graves whose occupants were 85-101 but these are all Non-World War Graves and most are Chelsea Pensioners at Brookwood.

[Guest geoff501]

So 85 seems to be the oldest so far. So how does a Captain end up serving until 85 years of age? I hope nobody suggests that as a retirement age anytime soon

And we thought crashed pension schemes was a modern phenomenon! Presumably the Captain

returned from retirement to serve King and Country, presumably as did many other experienced Officers and NCOs.

[PhilB]

He was not 'allowed' home but repatriation was permitted for anyone prior to mid 1915 and so it is not so odd.

.

So tens of thousands of bodies could, in theory, have been returned and buried back in UK? Any idea how many actually were? Phil B

[Terry Denham]

Phil

The theory is correct - but it never happened, mainly due to the fact the the relatives had to pay for transporting the body.

It had never been the custom to return British war dead although a few rich families had done so for their officer sons.

I have been researching this subject for several years (a book in the offing) and less than thirty men were repatriated to the UK before the practice was banned - all officers ('Unknown Soldier' probably excluded). Here, I won't wander off into the side stories of the very few post-war repatriations or those of dominion men but leave it that only a handful of British men made it back home.

If you search the Forum you will find a number of more detailed threads on the subject.