bcerha Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 A work colleague has discovered a German Stick grenade in the attic of her new house! It is currently on the back lawn because it is not clear whether it is a deact, repro or not a live!!!. It is the type with a hook attachment on the grenade body and the markings on the shaft are as follows: 5 1/2 sek AEG Any help in identifying this item or its likely provenance would be most welcome Regards David Further to my last it is confirmed as a WW1 variation as it has the large belt hook attachemnet which was removed after WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 5 1/2 sek is seconds (sekunden) - the time of the fuze delay. AEG is a maker mark. If it has a hook on the side it is a Great War pattern. If you can post some more info I can tell you the model. Does it have a crimped on lid or a ball shaped end to the stick or a screw on end star shaped end cap for instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Various models illustrated here from M1915 through to M1916/17. More than likely it is an M1916 or M1917 - there are many, many variations of stick grenades in the Great War but the later models are by far the most common. The Germans were making 8 million of these a month by the summer of 1917... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 24 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Giles, brilliant thanks for that. Having been up to the ladies house to see it I can confirm that it is the middle one of the three illustrated above. Even the writing on the grenade body (which is pretty faded - although just discernable) is exactly in keeping with what we found. On closer inspection I believe it to be a de-act but I was unwilling to take the chance especially as on removal of the base cover the pull string lanyard and wire was evidently still present so perhaps the detonator is as well. As that was the case I rang the locl RLC EOD chaps for advice and then we informed the Police who are dealing with it as we speak. I will let you know what transpires. Thanks again for the excellent info. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 My pleasure David. There are an awful lot of very good repros out there but yours sounds like a war time bring back. Intact with the original 'Insert detonator before use' stencil - very rare now - I would expect one like that to fetch £200 or more. I can tell you what will happen now - it will be quickly emptied (if necessary) and end up in the local EOD guy's collection thank you very much... Here a pic of one (amongst other things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 And the innards - this is a 'small can' M1917. Just unscrew the can and remove the detonator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 24 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Thanks Giles, I'll keep you posted. I did tell the lady to hang on to it if she got the chance once they'd made it safe! I'll keep you posted. Thanks again Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 ... and there I was sat at my desk wondering how German stick grenades worked and lo! There was light! Thanks Giles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 24 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Giles, To close this one out the EOD boys came and took it away but when she phoned to ask for it back after it was made safe they told her she couldn't have it. Apparently it seems theyprobably knew exactly what it was. A pity because I think, having told her what it was she would have kept it for interest sake. I think I shall keep an eye out on ebay over the next few weeks! thanks again for the help regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly 1916 Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Hello, here is one example of a german hand grenade that I have, a Stielhandgranate 17. Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Nice example Sly. David, I am not surprised - they won't get involved in deactivating stuff for the public I guess! More seriously, this is always the case. They always keep stuff in this sort of situation. I was not joking about it ending up in an EOD guy's collection though. Twas ever thus - I think my fascination with grenades and ordnance comes from an episode when I was at school aged 8. I returned home to find my mother had been gardening, struck a metallic object with a spade and discovered a stash of Mills bombs and small arms ammmunition. Turns out to have been a 2nd WW dump area. We had a garden full of police and bomb disposal men. Needless to say when I returned home from school all was gone and as a young boy who watched all the war films I was heartbroken to have missed all the fun and be denided the chance to 'play' with the stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Gray Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 Needless to say when I returned home from school all was gone and as a young boy who watched all the war films I was heartbroken to have missed all the fun and be denided the chance to 'play' with the stuff... Likewise in the village I used to live in when a JCB digging foundations for a new house turned up a job lot of Home Guard Phosphorus bombs - it would appear that a number of aged locals knew damn well where Charlie Ridgewell had disposed of their stock in 1944 (in his back garden in a hole!) , and were watching the excavations with considerable interest! The big difference here is I was 31... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 My father was a storm trooper (Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment {Flammenwerfer}) and many years ago he told me about their special 3 1/2 second storm grenades, made for close work like storming a trench. He said that sometimes a brave Frenchman would count and try to "field" a grenade and toss it back, only to come to grief. Recently I have seen a photo of a Stielhandgranate ("stick {or handle} hand grenade") with 3 1/2 marked on it, so this was correct. Incidentally, these all were primarily concussion grenades; of course they threw parts about, such as the handle, but there was not a stirated cast iron shell to produce lots of sharp fragments. So they were safer for the thrower at close quarters, and since I imagine they held more explosives, still very effective against the recipient. As a kid I did not play a lot of throwing games, like baseball, but instead soccer (football), and with US hand grenades I had difficulty getting the damn thing far enough out to give myself a chance not to get winged, if they had been live and not training grenades. I would think that I would have gotten better range with one of these. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 I still have a grenatenwerfer projectile in my Garage,which my French Guest who brought it over to me as an Xmas present insists is inert,anyway of confirming this without dying ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 PBI, The golden rule is call the authorities but these are very common items to be bought in fairs and from collectors in France - do you have any reason to doubt your friend? If the Granatenwerfer does not dissasemble it is impossible to tell and you should call the relevant authorities. Obviously if the main body unscrews from the shaft then you can see the inside is empty of explosive. If not does the top cap remove easily? Again if so you can look inside and see it is empty and there is no detonator present. If these parts are stiff - meaning it has not been apart recently then forget it and call the authorities. If it has been deactivated the main body will unscrew easily. Often the top cap is left seized but as long as the main body unscrews and it is clean inside with no detonator then it is fine. What sometimes gets forgotten is the propellant cartridge in the tail - shine a torch in here to see what looks like the base of a small arms cartrdige. If there is one - call the authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Thanks for that,just had a good look at it and all is empty...Phew !..thanks again...Warm Regards...have you read the Book AFTERMATH by Donovan Webster,ther are some real Horror Stories in it regarding Military Ordinance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 One of my favourite Great War related books! There is also a superb documentary based on the book: http://www.aftermathpictures.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Wow !!! thanks very much..do you have a copy of the Belgian Film "THe Last Survivors Of The Great War" ?,all about the recovery and destruction of munitions in Belgique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 No, but if you have a copy available I would be very interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 No, but if you have a copy available I would be very interested. If you can E-Mail me your Address,i will record last survivors on to DVD for you..no problems....Regards Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Hi Russel, PM sent, many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Will send it poste haste,first thing Tuesday Morning...have you checked out the article on the Great War Heritage Sight regarding all the Chemical weapons dumped just off the Belgian coast at Knokke ?..i was swimming there only last July !!!!!!!..will now do a test to see if this dowloading image thing actually works,as i have been having probs...here goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Take it away!! The floating head burns my eyes!! What was the HE filling for a german stick grenade? Amatol etc as per the British? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 The explosive charge changed as the grenade developed through the war. Early models 1915 - 270g mixture of Ammonium Nitrate (80%) and TNT (Tri-Nitro-Toulene). (This is Amatol as we know it - different countries used other terms. TNT is Trotyl in Germany (and sometimes in Britain in 14-18), Tolite in France.) Later stick models used purely TNT - a more powerful explosive that allowed a smaller charge and the smaller cannister of later models. Many of the early large cans were used with the smaller charge and to keep the weight the same (for consistent throwing) a wooden spacer was added - I found one of these spacers in France last year. British grenades used a mixture of explosives - somewhere in a previous topic there was a discussion on these but amongst others - Trotyl, Ammonal, Amatol, Tonite, Sabulite, Bellite, Baratol, etc, etc! Mills commonly used Ammonal or Alumatol. More waffle on explosives here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...8898&hl=ammonal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly 1916 Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Exactly, as said Giles Poilu, here is german hand grenades found last christmas in the Somme area, just walking along a path. In this grenade tin was still a piece of wood clearly visible. Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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