A Barbed Question

[Mark A]

Good evening everyone.

Is there any way of telling (apart from the location where you see it) the difference between British and German barbed wire? A farmer showed me a roll he'd just ploughed up a couple of weeks ago. I'll try and attach a digital picture later but I was wondering meantime if anyone knows.

Cheers,

Mark

[Krithia]

Hi

I believe the German Barbed-Wire was a lot thicker in the stem than the British wire, and had roughly the same design of barb attached. Incidently during the early months of the war the Brtish were commonly issued with a short pattern of wirecutter that had three notches, sometimes called the three-head wirecutter, where the wire would be inserted in order to cut. These were designed with British wire in mind (that was a lot thinner) so when trying to cut the thicker German wire, the Brits had great difficulties. I have read accounts of this pattern of wirecutter being thrown away at Gallipoli as it was next to useless (the Turks were supplied with German wire). The traditional looking long handle wire cutter with open mouth blades became a solution. I'll try and up load some photos soon if interested.

Regards, Steve Chambers

[Mark A]

Hello Steve (and welcome to the forum!)

That's very interesting about wire cutting. I had heard that the German wire's barbs were in threes (ie three barbs wrapped around the stem). It's an interesting topic- the fact that an agricultural/cattle ranching tool could cause such immense trouble.

[Tim Birch]

According to John Masefield (the famous Poet Laureate) in "The Old Front Line" German wire contained sixteen barbs to the foot and was "as thick as a sailor's marline stuff". It was generally ungalvanised and quickly rusted to a black colour. British wire on the other hand was galvanised and remained grey even after months of exposure.

I would guess that wire found now is probably more likely to be British than German, as the lack of galvanising on theirs would have resulted in its rusting away completely, unless encapsulated in a low oxygen environment such as clay.

Tim

PS Does anyone know what a sailor's marline stuff was?

[Fleur]

I am sure that I have seen on TV a museum in the US of A that is dedicated to the history of barbed wire and, if I recall correctly, they have examples of pretty much every type ever made.

I wonder if they have a website cos they would probably be the ideal people to inform you of the differences.

Fleur

[HERITAGE PLUS]

The Museum you are thinking of is The Devil's Rope Museum in McLean, Texas.

Website: http://www.barbwiremuseum.com./

[Mark A]

Thanks very much for your replies on this- the museum of barbed wire is quite something!

Mark

[michaeldr]

To illustrate the point made by Steve Chambers, the following is extracted from Snelling where talking of the Turkish (German ?) wire encountered at Gallipoli, Cpl. W. Cosgrove VC said

"...we started to cut it with pliers. You might as well try and snip Cloyne Round Tower with a lady's scissors, and you would not hurt yourself either. The wire was of great strength, strained as tight as a fiddle-string and so full of spikes or thorns that you could not get the cutters between" Cosgrove threw away the cutters and proceeded to pull up the wooden stakes for a distance of 30 yds as reported by 2nd Lt. Brown.

The citation for Cosgrove's VC reads;

"For most conspicuous bravery in the leading of his section with great dash during the attack from the beach to the east of Cape Helles, on the Turkish positions, on 26th April 1915.

Corporal Cosgrove on this occasion pulled down the posts of the enemy's high wire entanglements single-handed, notwithstanding a terrific fire from both front and flanks, thereby greatly contributing to the successful clearing of the heights."

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Tom Morgan]

There are exceptions to every rule of course, but generally speaking you can tell the difference between German and British wire because German wire usually had a single central square core with a slight twist to it, while British wire had the familiar two strands of twisted wire as the central core. The barbs on German wire are often closer together and bigger than their British counterparts, and because the German barbs are wound around the single square-section core, you can often turn the barbed section round and round.

Hope this pic will show the difference - German wire is the upper one.

[Mark A]

Thanks Tom. The wire that the farmer ploughed up was "certainly" German (I come to that conclusion with the aid of your pictures and where it was found). Your description of German wire as having more barbs seems to square up with Michael's post which quotes W. Cosgrove VC.

Thanks again everyone.

Mark