14 Clasp how to establish if due?

[KIRKY]

Hi I have a 14 star to a 2nd Batt Worcs. I have the MIC which shows date of entry as 14-8-14 but not sure if entitled to a Clasp?

how do I establish this?

Tony

[welshdoc]

Normally its clear on the mic "clasps and roses", is there more than i mic?

[KIRKY]

Hi looks like "Disc" next to 14 Star line - I thought it was dischsarged as he was wounded?

Tony

[welshdoc]

discharged may have been for illness and if he never reached the front no BAR but there shold be notice of a silver wounds badge" SWB.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The Clasp was an afterthought & instituted long after the Star itself & had to be claimed by due recipients,{Casualties were granted it Automatically if entitled{in theory @ least} Many did,but many didnt{despite promotion by National & local press advertisements & Ex ~ Service organisations @ the Time},therefore although many who might have been entitled to the Clasp had they put in a Claim which @ the time could have been Checked,they chose not to & subsequently technically are not entitled if the Comment "Clasp & Roses" & relevant Code;isn't added to their MiC & Roll Page{always worth checking as well}

[Stebie9173]

As I think I might just have mentioned once or twice before, my great-uncle was taken POW with the 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau on 26-8-1914. He had no clasp on his MIC, so presumably didn't claim it.

Steve.

[Bombadier]

As I have said before on the forum, my grandfathers '14 star has the bar on the ribbon. There is also a separate rosette. His MIC has no mention of these.

He IS entitled. He arrived in France with the RGA in August '14 and was in action shortly afterwards. He was a lifelong member of the Old Contemptibles Association. The OCA colour party was at his cremation.

Nigel

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

There is a difference between "Entitlement" & "Confirmed Entitlement",Many of those entitled to Claim the Clasp didn't;{& conversely many who could have applied added a Jewellers Replacement,without applying,they were not difficult to obtain} therefore according to their Medal Index Card & Medal Rolls Officially there is No entitlement,that does not detract from their Service or the fact that many many of them were in the areas where had they applied for it they would have Officially been issued with the Clasp & Roses & it would have been appended to their Records.when one is dealing with records you have to confine yourself to Historical Facts,thus if officially there is No Confirmation on Records,sadly it has to be taken on face value.

[Terry_Reeves]

The "1914 Star" Committee announced its proposals on 22nd April 1919

1. "The Committee having carefully considered the proposals laid before it regarding the granting of a "Silver Rosette" to be worn on the "1914 Star" by Officers and Other Ranks who took actual part in operations as those opposed to those who did not, are of the unanimous opinion that the award of this additional distinction is quite possible and highly desirable.

The regulations which have been drawn up are in their opinion workable and, although there will be a percentage of errors and inevitably hard cases, these will not be such as to materially affect the main issue.

2. The Committee propose the following regulations :

a] Officers and other ranks on the strength of, or attached to, the units and formations detailed in List A. (attached) from the date of disembarkation in the theatre of war up to midnight 22nd-23rd November !914 are eligble for this distinction, except as defined below.

b] Units and formations detailed in List B (attached) must establish their claims to have been in the Battle Area as defined below within the above period.

c]The definition of the Battle Area for the purpose of this award is "within range of the enemy's mobile artillery"

d] Officers and other ranks, although on the strength of or attached to units and formations detailed in List A but who were not actually present in the Battle Area with such units or formations or not on actual duty there within the above period, are not eligible for this distinction.

3. The Committee are also of the opinion that a small Bronze Star about the size of a threepenny piece to be affixed to the Meadl Ribbon (and in miniature form with the ribbon alone or minature medal) would be preferable to the silver rosette suggested in the Terms of Reference, as the rosette denotes a bar e.g. DSO MC ect.

4. The evidence to decide what officers and other ranks come under the above conditions should be available in Records Offices, War Diaries, Army book 49, Acquittance Rolls, Army Form B 103, Army Book 64, and the Committee think that it rests with the units in conjunction with Records Offices to make the necessary decisions."

(Signed) George Paynter Brig-Gen
Chairman of Committee

List "A" mentioned above is too long to reproduce here, however List "B""Units in the Order of Battle for November 24th , 1914, who had proved their claim to have been under fire are shown below:

GHO Signal Company
Corps Signal Companies (including Airline and Cable Sections)
Printing and Litho Sections
Armoured Trains ("Churchill", "de Guise", "Jellicoe")
8th Railway Company RE, 20th and 42nd Fortress Companies RE
Royal Monmouth RE (Seige Company and two Railway Comapnies)
Royal Anglesey RE (Railway Company)
Aircraft Park RFC
Army Troops Train ASC
Ammunition Parks
Reserve Parks
90th and 91st Motor Bus Companies ASC
RN Division Motor Bus Company
RAMC 1st - 5th (inc) Field Ambulance Convoys
5th Battlion Border Regiment
6th Battalion Welsh Regiment
28th Battalion, London Regiment

Terry Reeves

[terryb95]

Hi Terry,

From that list I would assume that 7th Siege Bty RGA were in list A and as such entitled to it.

Terry

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I would assume that 7th Siege Bty RGA were in list A and as such entitled to it.

But note "2.d]"

Not everyone in those units would automatically be entitled.

[Terry_Reeves]

Terry

7th Seige Battery was one of the units whose claim was not in doubt under the rules. There may have been individuals in A list units, who for some reason or other, did not qualify.

Terry Reeves